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September 24, 2017, 05:08:20 AM

Author Topic: Correct Galaxy page colors are not being assigned to the largest NPCs in SFCO  (Read 2887 times)

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Offline napl

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Same problem in uni2 for the past few weeks.

Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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My spawns continue to grow, as I grow -- and they continue to get increasing green when I view them on the Galaxy Page.  The "eljer severity number" when I look at my own spawns now is 358, up from the 311 value of about a week ago.  This number should be around 255 (and the NPCs should show as white), given that these spawns are matched to my RSPs value.  Instead, my targets are getting greener and greener, and thus are becoming increasingly difficult for me to identify.  Once they fade into the background of all the other NPCs that appear to me as being "pure green" (eljer values of 510), I will no longer be able to hunt NPCs for myself.  Once I lose this independence, it will be time to find something else to do with my life, rather than play SFC.

The observed behavior is a clear indicator that the game (1) has some max number that it uses to represent the size of NPCs, (2) that my NPCs are larger than this number, and (3) that the game is using this number to internally represent the size of my NPCs.  So -- my NPCs appear to the game's internals to have this capped size (although they are continuing to grow, in reality -- my espi reports prove that).  The game uses this capped size, along with a given player's RSPs value, to calculate the NPC's display color on the Galaxy Page.  For most players, these still show as being deep red or deep pink, but for me they are becoming greener and greener as my RSPs increase. 

This same issue was observed back in 2013/2014 and was repaired by BFG (band-aided, maybe) at that time.  I'm hoping that there still is an opportunity for BFG to repair this issue, once more. 

Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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In 14 days, the lower-bound "eljer severity code" number for my self-spawns has increased from 311 to 398.  If all I had available to select NPCs was their Galaxy Page color, I'd already be to the point where I would be depending on others to find my NPCs for me.

At this rate of severity code increase, everything could be showing as "510"'s to me within a month or so.  I'm hoping that BFG will address this issue before then.  If not, I'll no longer be able to find my own NPCs to whack.  Bruce Mays (No. 2 in SFCO) will be about a month behind me before he suffers similarly.  The Silence, Newtonian Ninja, and White Gold Wielder will be in a similar situation soon thereafter.  Other large players will suffer in this way as they grow to a size that is about equal to my current  size.

Offline Pantin

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not to be a party pooper. and I fully get your frustration and all... but... We've been playing around an "mostly only green" NPCs with the help of a script for months. IF BFG hasn't fixed it by now they won't becaue if they considered this bug a game breaking one they wouldn't rely on a script to fix it, as many players play script free.

Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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Pantin,

This same issue was band-aided back in 2013/2014.  As best as I can tell -- I could be wrong -- the re-emergence of this has been documented only during the past few weeks.  At least, it has only been publicly documented for the past few weeks, maybe others opened private service requests.

Offline DolphinDiver

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Hi,

I want to adress the post you did at another topic:

Quote
The game generates NPCs each day based upon the technology characteristics of 20 exemplar players, with one player being selected each day from among those in each 5% interval on the RSPs leaderboard ladder.

I dont get why the colour of the NPC should be wrong. If you only contribute 5% to an NPC strength it is obvious that there are 19 players that are weaker than you do impact an NPC strength. So the stronger you grow compared to the remaining players the bigger the deviation of a 20 player average is compared to you. Means the NPC is getting more and more green because you are getting to fast to big. And to be honest its just fair that an BoardLeader are slowed down in groth by spending more time on finding good targets.


Offline commander abаб

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There are currently 3033 players in SFCO.  So each percentile group contains approximately 150 players.  (20 groups of ~150 players).  So, on average the NPCs in your percentile are patterned off your ship/defense configuration every 150 days and sized based on one of your planets on a random basis.  It says in the wiki that a player in the 99th percentile may have to look up to 99 systems away for a NPC that spawned off of them.

Please correct any part of this, my understanding of the process, that is wrong.

Now back to vacation in SFCO.  :)

Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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Hi, Dolphin,

I didn't explain myself very well.

Let's say you are a player at the 87th percentile of RSPs in your universe.  So, you are in the 85% - 90% bin.

Each day, the game selects a player from that bin.  The game notes that player's tech levels.  It uses those levels, with some variability thrown in for fun, whenever it spawns an NPC during that day, from a player in the 85% - 90% RSPs percentile bin.  So, it will generate your NPCs (that day) using those parameters.

The game does similarly for each of the other 5% RSPs bins.  Choose a player, store away his techs, use those techs when any NPC is spawned that day off a player whose RSPs fit into that bracket.

The NPCs coloring issue is a totally different animal. 

Whenever a player opens a Galaxy Page, the game defines the color with which each NPC on that page is displayed FOR THAT PLAYER.  The color routine uses two input values:

1. The RSPs value for the player who is viewing the Galaxy Page (call this "Value 1").
2. The RSPs value that has been assigned by the game to that NPC.  This roughly is the RSPs value of the player from whom the NPC was spawned, with same minor random variation (call this "Value 2")

If you are seeing an NPC that is spawned off a player that is larger than you are, the NPC will appear some shade of red or pink.  The ratio of Value 1 to Value 2 (normally) is less than "1" in this case.
If you are seeing an NPC that is spawned off a player that is smaller than you are, the NPC will appear some shade of green to light green.  The ratio of Value 1 to Value 2 is greater than "1" in this case.
If you are seeing an NPC that is spawned off a player that is your size, or about your size, the NPC will appear to be in the range of very pale pink, to white, to very pale green. The ratio of Value 1 to Value 2 (normally) is "1", or very close to it.

There is a script -- SolarSystemSummary -- that converts the assigned colors to numeric values and displays those on the Galaxy page.  A "pure red" target shows as a "0", a "pure green" target shows as a "510", a "pure white" shows as 255.  NPCs with lighter shades of red or pink have values between 1 and 254.  NPCs with lighter shades of green have values between 509 and 256.

Given that an NPC which spawns off a given player is supposed to be assigned an RSPs value that is close to their own, that self-spawn should be colored somewhere in the light pink-white-light green rank -- IF the coloring routine is working properly, and IF it is receiving proper values.

The issue back in 2013 -- and which seems to be the issue once more -- is that the RSPs value for very large NPCs (only mine, so far, but this soon will be affecting others) appears to be larger than the largest number which SFCO uses to represent this size.  So, for these very large NPCs, the function that SFCO uses to calculate NPC color is receiving the following inputs:
-  the viewing player's RSPs value (Value 1)
-  this largest number that SFCO uses to represent NPC size. (Value 2)

So, as a player gets larger and larger as days pass, the ratio between these numbers -- the player's RSPs value and the largest number for NPC size that the game feeds into the coloring routine -- will continually grow, because Value 1 continues to grow while Value 2 remains fixed.  As this ratio grows, the game colors the very large NPCs with a color that becomes increasingly green, until they eventually become indistinguishable from the smallest NPCs.

So, this is how the game is broken.  My NPCs are continuing to grow, as I grow.  I see proof of that in my espi reports, and in the DSPs and res that I bring back from my NPC hits.  But, when the game calculates the color used to display my NPCs on the Galaxy Page, those increases in size aren't being recognized -- the game now uses some fixed maximum number to represent my NPCs when it calculates Galaxy Page display color.  This results in my NPCs being displayed to me in increasingly deeper shades of green as my RSPs value grows (Value 1 / Value 2 gets larger and larger).  If this incorrect internal representation isn't corrected, I have probably 4 weeks or so before I see all NPCs, including my own (which are the largest in the game), as being pure green.  Once that occurs, I'll need to depend on others to identify my spawns because (at least for a while) they still will see those NPCs as being red or pink.  But, I don't know if I'll want to continue playing once I no longer can independently find my own targets.  We'll see.

 



Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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The eljercode "NPC severity number" for my own NPCs now is 424, vs. the value of ~255 (for a white NPC) that I should be seeing.  My NPCs are about as green to me as are everyone else's, so without the eljer script I could no longer independently hunt NPCs.  The Silence (No. 3 player in SFCO) tells me that he also is seeing a fading out of my targets, so he also is observing the impact of my NPCs being represented within SFCO by a capped number that under-represents their size. 

John and Chad,  I'm hoping that Jason is making you fellows aware of this issue.  This is a definite game limitation that, within the next few months, will be impacting many more of the top players (and top payers) in SFCO.

Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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Bruce Mays tells me that he also is being affected now.  He's currently seeing all of his NPCs as light green targets with NPC severity code of 301.

The Silence will be next, most likely in a couple of weeks or so.


Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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In case anyone from BFG is reading...

I'm now seeing my spawns as eljer script "455"'s.  In 5 weeks the number by which I detect my spawns has changed from 311 to 455, there are only 55 more numbers to go until everything is a "510" to me and I no longer can independently find my spawns.  If the SolarSystemSummary script didn't exist, I would have been shut down about 3 weeks ago, due to my not being able to differentiate the shades of green that are used to represent the NPCs on the Galaxy pages.  So -- maybe 2 or 3 more weeks until I'm "blind".

Offline occuli imperator

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what the fun is that ???
nothing else around

Encounter Abandoned Warship ‎[14:229:3e] has:

RESOURCES:
* ore: 2,934,386
* crystal: 4,513,314
* hydrogen: 3,322,896

SEEKERS'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 1,037
* Atlas Class Cargo: 554
* Apollo Class Fighter: 101
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 76
* Hercules Class Cargo: 117
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 208
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 41
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 83
* Athena Class Battleship: 20
* Ares Class Bomber: 10
* Hades Class Battleship: 21
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 33

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 1,052
* Laser Cannon: 505
* Pulse Cannon: 1,022
* Particle Cannon: 204
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 153
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 1

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 11
* Shield Tech: 11
* Weapons Tech: 11

Attack | Espionage | Harvest


The chance of your probes being intercepted is 0%
Forward | Delete
My enemy’s enemy is a problem for later: In the meantime, they might be useful.

Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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BFG's COO has contacted me and has let me know that they've taken my description of the problem, identified an issue with SFCO, and applied a fix early this evening.  I'll let them know if the problem has been addressed, once I see some new self-spawns.

This makes two issues -- one a usability issue related to the time needed to perform large numbers of merchant invocations, and this defect -- that BFG has responded to in the past few weeks with code changes.  I think that these responses are important for us to note.  BFG DOES listen to us, and they DO act, when we communicate an issue and present a compelling win-win argument for their addressing it.

One more thing -- I've had a lot of conversations with Jason regarding these issues.  I believe that he's been an effective advocate for the players' needs.  I want to publicly thank him for the role he's played here.


Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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I SEE WHITE NPCs AGAIN!!!!!!

Thanks, BFG!

Offline napl

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I guess they haven't gotten around to the code fix in uni2 yet.