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Author Topic: Suspensions..  (Read 1887 times)

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Offline Deeds

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Suspensions..
« on: March 04, 2014, 02:28:37 AM »
this is in regards to someone on my buddy list who was recently suspended, they shall remain nameless as per forum rules though. The buddy in question was suspended today, and the reason for suspension, which i HAVE seen before, is in my opinion, bogus.

The situation being, a player quit, and launched his fleet at a buddy of mine. There was no prior knowledge of this.
He was suspended for failing to life his ships.

Ill be honest though, i wouldnt have lifted them either.
When you have two options, being either 1) Leave the ships and soak up some DSP, or 2) life your ships, and let your defense grid get smashed...almost everyone will choose option 1.

Im not complaining about the suspension, i know its about impossible to change the mind of a BFG member in these cases, but i would like to make a suggestion for the future.

I do this because, as stated, i have seen MANY people adversely affected due to this rule.
No matter what, you lose. Leave your ships, and the DSP is taken away +Suspension.
However, if you lift your ships, your defenses get smashed up, and if you win, the DSP is taken away here as well, so then youre left with nothing but a messed up D grid.

SO i offer 2 solutions. Keep in mind, this is ONLY for the cases in which the defender has NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the attack. If it can be proven that they KNEW about it, then this need not apply as it is their own fault..but for those players who are blindsided by one of these "retirement/suicide runs"...

Option 1) Allow them to leave their ships to protect their defense grid, then Remove the DSP, they didnt earn it, but do NOT suspend. They didnt do anything wrong. In this case, they dont benefit at all, and in fact will lose a few ships. Again, these people do not deserve suspension if they had no prior knowledge. 

Option 2) If they jump the attack, as BFG says they should do now, they should NOT be penalized with a bashed up defense grid for following the rules. So i suggest, if the ATTACKER/retiree is found to have acted outside of the rules, and warrants suspension, then the DEFENDER should either get to keep the DSP, ***OR*** Have their defenses rebuilt at no cost to them.

I hope BFG will consider implementing one of these. I think the best option would be the rebuilding of defenses lost due to the attackers suspend-able action.

The way the rules are now, anyone who is quitting can just launch their ships at someone..and if the person doesnt lift their ships, they get suspended. So i could basically get anyone i wanted suspended as my final action...not okay.
MunchMunchMunchMunchMunch

Offline Pantin

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 02:44:27 AM »
Keep in mind, this is ONLY for the cases in which the defender has NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the attack.

There is no way oif knowing if someone has no knowledge of something, unless you work at the NSA, maybe. I'm not saying your whole ideas suck, jsut that from BFG's standpoint there is no way of knowing for sure wether someone knows somethign or doesn't.

It happened to me back in SDE, I msg'ed matt and ticketed because some dude was sending his whole fleet at me on a 36h flight and I wasn,t sure what was legal to do or not. From what the dude told me in game, among swears, is that BFg cancelled his attack from inside his account. Don't hold me to this though, that's what eh said and I don't remember if I bothered to confirm with BFG or not.



Offline Deeds

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 02:50:33 AM »
WHen i was still playing with my old account, i didnt even need to FRS(in HG) because it would require my own alliance mates AND good buddies turning on e for my fleet to have been taken out. I often left it un-attended for hours. What bothers me, is that anyone who doesnt like me and was quitting the game, could have launched their fleet at me, full speed, and nailed me while i was AFK. My fleet wouldve killed all of their ships, and i wouldve been suspended for not lifting, and i wouldnt even have been on my computer.

I know That it is hard to prove whether they knew about it or not, but unless they can prove that they DID, simply taking away the DSP should suffice. They arent left with any gain.
And rebuilding defenses would be nice to do for the Defender, if they DID pull their fleets, because their loss of defenses can be seen as them being penalized for following the rules, and if they are going to get the DSP taken away, the least BFG could do, is rebuild the defenses lost from the incident in return. IMO
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Offline gypsy88

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 02:55:41 AM »
Guess innocent until proven guilty means nothing to BFG....unless your one of matt's little pets  ::)

Offline Matt H

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 03:09:23 AM »
Guess innocent until proven guilty means nothing to BFG....unless your one of matt's little pets  ::)

No, my 7 cats and 2 dogs are usually always guilty without further trial.
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Offline Dizbuscoord

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 03:20:03 AM »
Now that's hilarious........
Member:  7th ARC
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Offline Deeds

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 03:22:47 AM »
That is pretty funny matt(:
any feedback on my initial post though? something thats been in my mind for a while now, as ive seen friends lose out because of this, even though they were sometimes not even online.
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Offline Matt H

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 03:25:08 AM »
In general, we don't suspend players that have 'no prior knowledge'. We typically must find something to suggest that the knowledge existed and that player acquiesced to that knowledge. If a player is ever in doubt, submit a ticket about the incident immediately upon noticing the incoming attack so that we can review your ticket as part of the larger body of evidence.
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Offline Deeds

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 03:27:37 AM »
any chance we will see defenses replaced after future incidents of this sort?
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Offline Monkey D. Luffy

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 04:12:11 AM »
Deeds... Did your friend submit a support ticket when saw the incoming suicide?... Everyone who reads the forums knows that you must do so... if your friend didn't, then it's his tough luck... if he did, then you have a reason to question his suspension... however, seeing as though he was suspended, I doubt he informed BFG of the incoming attack, as he needed to (assuming that he didn't want to be suspended.)
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Offline Deeds

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 04:17:17 AM »
Im not trying to dispute this particular suspension, as i know little about its details, but just the method in general. ive personally seen people suspended this way when i know for a fact that they never once were online to be ABLE to jump the attack.

 Im all for taking away the DSP that wasnt earned, but i dont think the defender should be suspended, unless its also a violation of the multi-account rule. at least 50% of the cases ive seen of this, the defender had NO idea.

ive even seen someone get suspended when someone launched 100 atlas at them and they didnt lift because..well..its just 100 atlas.. lol
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Offline Monkey D. Luffy

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 04:28:38 AM »
ive personally seen people suspended this way when i know for a fact that they never once were online to be ABLE to jump the attack. ---- snip ---- at least 50% of the cases ive seen of this, the defender had NO idea.

Right, that in of itself is not against the rules,... assuming that they submitted a ticket to BFG when they did log on, BFG should of just removed the points and debris, and only suspended the offending player - Did the players in question - the ones that you mention - do what they were supposed to do, and contact BFG,... or did they get greedy, and keep their mouths shut about it, and wind up with a suspension for that?...

If they did what they were supposed to do, and contacted BFG as soon as they saw what happened, and BFG still suspended them... then I have problem with it too... otherwise,... they got greedy, and got caught.

Mind you - I don't know the details, and I'm not harping on you about it - I'm just telling you how I see it... that's all.
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Offline Deeds

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 06:25:02 AM »
Ive seen it happen both ways, where they did and did not report it.

THe reason i mention the defense rebuild is this though:
about a month ago, a buddy of mine DID pull his ships, and the attacker sent 4-5 waves of attacks.
The defense grid was destroyed, and since only a percentage rebuild each time, and it was multiple rounds..

This person reported it, and had the DSP subtracted, but they were left with a couple hundred million resources worth of defenses lost. Thats 1 good day of hunting for a top ten player in HG(at that time), and this person was NOT a top ten player either, so it was several days worth for them.

So, my point here is, it was not their fault. The other person did something that was a suspend-able action(and DID get suspended for it). This person would NOT have taken even a small percent of the losses if they had left their fleet there, but so as not to get suspended they pulled it, and lost the D.
Should they have been given the Defenses back, that they lost only because they followed the rules? I dont think so, i think they should be replaced.

not saying that was a special case, ive seen that happen before, but using it as an example of why i think, when the attacker make an action like that, which breaks the rules, and the defender takes a large amount of losses due to following the rules, they should have their D replaced. IMO
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Offline WGW

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 03:09:08 PM »
Biggest issue imho is ...

Precedent is a bitch to deal with. While your friend may be a total innocent, setting a precedent that would allow it as a defense against suspension would also open the ol cheater door wide open.  Does it suck being him? yup it does. But losing Defenses is part of the game, and with the npc correction in place .. it wouldnt take much or long to replace it.  Shit happens, best to avoid the (s) and just move on. The last thing we need is to bog down support trying to determine what def was lost ... let it go.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 03:13:46 PM by WGW »

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Re: Suspensions..
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2014, 12:01:44 PM »
In general, we don't suspend players that have 'no prior knowledge'. We typically must find something to suggest that the knowledge existed and that player acquiesced to that knowledge. If a player is ever in doubt, submit a ticket about the incident immediately upon noticing the incoming attack so that we can review your ticket as part of the larger body of evidence.

Just my two cents Matt, I would only sent a ticket when I knew it was someone suiciding and quiting.
In that case I would have prior knowledge and would be in violation.
Now I have been attacked by a person before  where I knew upfront the attack would mean I win, once because the attacker failed to see the defenses on my terrie, and once the attacker made a mistake and sent his FRS as attack.
Now I am playing this game to get peoples fleet inside my recyclers and turn them in beautifull new ships with my nametag on them, I believe that is also the purpose of the game.
In both cases I waited it out and in the second case only lifted the ships I didn't want to participate in the battle and sent them to collect the DF, there was no way for me to know what was going on but I assumed they made a mistake and they did.
This game is verry simple, there are two ways to loose your fleet :
a) You are lazy and don't FRS or slowprobe
b) You make a mistake
Both ways are fair and all in the game.
So my question, why on earth would I ticket BFG if I see the MacDonalds Drive-inn coming to me instead of me having to go to them?

I understand it is hard to prove the recieving party had no knowledge of the sending party quiting, but that is visa versa, it's also hard to prove the recieving part did have knowledge of the sending party quiting.
Before suspending someone there are some things you guys can investigate before even concidering further action :
a) Where reciever and sender at some point in the game on eachothers buddylist
b) Where reciever and sender at some point in the game in the same alliance.
c) Did sender sent out a message to one or more players (ingame message, forum or alliance forum) telling them he is quiting
d) If the sender did sent out a message like that, did reciever recieve any messages notifying him about that or was it presumable that the message got to him somehow.

I believe that only when either 1 off those options is in place a suspension can be justified, otherwise the recieving end should get the benefit of the doubt.