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Author Topic: Defense: A Strategical Discussion  (Read 10771 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2010, 11:36:29 PM »
Okay on my homeworld my mines are 24/24/21
I have 0 defense. I send my ships on 16 hour fleetsaves till i get back on the game.
I have yet to be attacked for my resources i produce. I have full real workers in every mine too.
It isn't worth for someone to hit you for those resources.
It isn't worth it to build defences.
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Offline Magellan VI

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2010, 11:39:30 PM »
Where are you based?

I'd like to move next door  ;)
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Offline crimewatch-fotofit

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 12:50:41 AM »
me too
be a great shopping spree
like supermarket sweep  or trolley dash :)
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Offline Perseus

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 06:20:39 AM »
Quote from: "Xela"
Okay on my homeworld my mines are 24/24/21
I have 0 defense. I send my ships on 16 hour fleetsaves till i get back on the game.
I have yet to be attacked for my resources i produce. I have full real workers in every mine too.
It isn't worth for someone to hit you for those resources.
It isn't worth it to build defences.

 :shock:

You must be in dip mode to think that no one would hit you for the overnight resources those mines would produce, especially with no defenses.
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Offline djbz

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2010, 08:46:00 AM »
Quote from: "Xela"
Okay on my homeworld my mines are 24/24/21
I have 0 defense. I send my ships on 16 hour fleetsaves till i get back on the game.
I have yet to be attacked for my resources i produce. I have full real workers in every mine too.
It isn't worth for someone to hit you for those resources.
It isn't worth it to build defences.
Definatly gonna attack your planet if i find it while you fleetsaving
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Offline Amodius

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2010, 03:25:40 AM »
Seems some people are arguing two different play styles as "the best".

On one side is the defense side: that is, investing resources into deterrents.
The other is fleet: spending as much of your resources as possible into your fleets, and fleet saving heavily.

Defense seems focused on guarding what you've got, and impaling your enemy as they attack. (and a good excuse for a small recycler fleet)
Fleet puts all (or most) of your resources into your ships, leaving would be enemies with meager targets to hit, and turning the player into a raiding heavy swarm, intent on devouring everything in it's path.

Drawback of the defense strategy would be spending resources to protect resources, forcing yourself into a war of attrition where you balance cost against value of resources you're protecting.

Drawback of the fleet one seems to be that any resources that aren't quickly spent are easy prey. For some, this one mean a small amount of resources, but resources that they didn't have to lose resources to gain.
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Offline Perseus

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2010, 04:16:24 AM »
When your mines produce over 100k OCH while you sleep, you'll need some defenses.

I try not to micromanage my account. To hell with balancing cost for firepower and worrying about mine ROI and stuff like that. I get enough OCH in a day to build a ton of defenses on all of my planets and queue up a ton of ships and buildings, so I don't care about the cost.
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Offline Krump

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2010, 05:49:23 AM »
Just a point that nobody has brought up yet, so I am not repeating the same stuff in favor of defenses over and over again: Defenses boost your rank. If you have 0, you are lacking in one of the components of the game that determines your rank. Same with crew. I have started building crew droids for no other reason than to keep my rank level (and spend that extra ore)

Besides that, defenses are useful just like everyone else has been pointing out. They regenerate 70% so when someone DOES attack you and you defend against it, it is much better to ahve defenses as well than just to have a fleet because not only do you get a boost in firepower but everything in defenses that is destroyed has a 70% probability to be rebuilt that you don't get when ships are destroyed.

Also, this is pretty much one of the MAIN reasons to get defenses so I will reiterate it: once your mines are high - let's face it, they HAVE to be in order to succeed in this game - you'll need to deter people from raiding. Oh, and you're bound to screw up on fleetsaving sooner or later. Everyone does. I absolutely LOVE hitting planets with nice fleets and 0 defenses. Minimal losses for me and maximum profits. Defenses deter raids. Fleets often invite them.
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Offline Perseus

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2010, 05:54:04 AM »
Defenses also allow small midnight runs to come back late at night and not be destroyed. No one is going to bust through 20 Plasmas, 40 Gauss, + fodder and medium defenses to plunder 50k OCH and destroy 15 Atlas.
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Offline Amodius

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2010, 08:11:43 AM »
Not to mention: blasting an enemy fleet (in it's entirety, or in partiality) into space debris is VERY profitable.  My little 5 ship recycler fleet loves that.


Here's another strategical thing to think about that some people may, or may not do:

Send a small harvester fleet timed to harvest  minutes after your attack so you can clean up after yourself. If you're going to raid someone, at least have the courtesy to not leave a mess when you go.   :lol:
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Offline Ether

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 02:36:42 AM »
Most of my planets have no defenses. I F/R save religiously. I produce no overnight since I build no mines. I attack religiously. I get tired of a system/galaxy, I abandon and build elsewhere. Try not to think so much as it's not that hard.
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Offline jrt2

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2010, 04:34:52 PM »
I am fairly new to the game but my resources are high enough to start building defenses.  I very much appreciate the information you all are providing but I have so far only one question, you mentioned that  decoys are a must, what ratio is advisable? Thanks jrt

P.S.
     Sorry for the idot question all I had to do was read!  Thanks anyway jrt
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Offline Ziggyny

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2010, 08:27:23 PM »
Decoys are capped at one of each type. You should always build both on any planet with any semblance of a defense.
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Vastet

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2010, 08:56:43 PM »
People who think defences are useless amuse me. I have literally made a profit by building defences, and without including any ninjas. My first Prometheus kill was thanks to my defences, along with the 6 others and dozens of other ships sent with them. If my Dionysus hadn't been on fleetsave I'd have had a 10 M df to grab. As it was I still got 1 M of it, and lost maybe 100k worth of defence.
My mines are in the twenties, and I make 25k an hour on my most developed mines. In 8 hours that's 200k res built up. If people could send a bunch of Atlas to take it, they would. Defences are not only useful, they are necessary for anyone with big mines and the need to sleep.
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Offline migs

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Re: Defense: A Strategical Discussion
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2010, 02:26:59 AM »
Defense is one of the most under-appreciated elements of the game.  Combined with FLEETSAVING, you will be nearly invincible.  Although there are multiple ways to war, several of our members have found an effective balance to defensively deter most enemies even while skipping a fleetsave from time to time.

I will start with what I believe every player’s target goal should be for their homeworld’s defenses.  According to BattleCalc and several top 200 players, you will not be attacked with these defenses unless someone hates you—and even then it would take time to wear your defenses down as no one is likely to take you head on unless they have a death wish. The END GOAL may be daunting to the newest player and even some veteran players, but seeing the finish line is nearly as effective as the most simplified explanations.

END GOAL (as of 4/10/10):
2,000 x Missiles
1,000 x Lasers
300 x Pulse
300 x Particle
1 x Decoy
60 x ABM
200 x Gauss
1 x Large Decoy
100 x Plasma

PROS:
1) Deterrence – This combination of defenses would ravage 99% of the fleets in the game. Whoever decides to attack you would likely lose more in the long run then what you have at your base.  In addition, your defenses have a 70% chance of being rebuilt.  His fleet does not.
2) Fleetsaving – Most top 200 players interviewed would not attack this defense even if your ships were at your home base.  This allows you more flexibility with raiding if you are in a position to log on at random times of the day and don’t want to be limited by a returning fleet. Ask yourself what type of player you are before investing in a defensive shell.

CONS:
1) Resources, time, smaller fleet.

PATH TO SUCCESS:
1) Defenses are easily destroyed by ICBMs. Build 30 ABMs before you seriously begin working on your defense.
2) Unlock and build 20 plasmas.
*With 40 ABMs and 20 plasmas, you will effectively deter/frustrate most players, especially in combination with FLEETSAVE.
3) Build Missiles/Lasers/Pulse/Particles/Gauss at your own pace with the END GOAL in mind.
4) Build 10 or more ABMs and 10-20 more Plasmas as you begin to develop your Athena/Hades/Prom fleet.
5) Halfway to the end goal (see above), you will effectively deter even top 1000 players.
*At this point, some players have found fleetsaving during the day to be inconsequential, especially if they like to log on at random times through the day for a quick raid.  The losses to most fleets are just too high, especially if a good-sized fleet of Athenas/Hades/Proms will be waiting behind the defenses.  ALWAYS fleetsave at night.
6) Continue to the END GOAL at your own pace and based on your perceived threats. You will undoubtedly gain an advantage through deterrence as you scale your desired fleet size with the END GOAL for your defenses in mind.

SCENARIOS:
To emphasize the value of this defensive strategy in numbers through BattleCalc:

An attacker with 333/333/333 Athenas/Hades/Proms would lose 191/153/88 ships.
Losses: 18465000 Ore, 13385000 Crystal, 3615000 Hydrogen.

500/250/250 Athenas/Hades/Proms would result in a draw and losses of 311/125/68  ships.
Losses: 21825000 Ore, 13065000 Crystal, 2895000 Hydrogen.

--------------------------

There are always “what if” scenarios involving multiple members of an alliance attacking your homeworld with 200 ICBMs at once or a high ranked player attacking regardless of any losses he would sustain.  This is why FLEETSAVING is your #1 defense.  However, for typical and predictable game play, you should be safe from most attackers.



...I am building the above post for my alliance. Scanning the board I'm curious to hear if anyone would disagree or would like to input.  Thanks!
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