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November 22, 2017, 03:32:59 AM

Author Topic: Defense Ratio  (Read 17314 times)

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Offline azzaron

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Re: A Treatise on defences
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2010, 05:39:42 AM »
Quote from: "ButtheirApparent"
    12 Missiles
    12 Lasers
    8 Pulse
    1 Decoy
    5 Particle
    4 Gauss
    1 Large

Maybe you'll feel this belongs in the n00b forum, but I was kind of hoping for some guidance for players at earlier levels, I mean players even below my own humble self.

Great start! To be honest, I wouldn't spend much more on defense until you get plasma. This is already enough to keep people around your level from thinking of nabbing your overnight resources. Since you said you were fleet saving, that's all you really need to worry about. Until you get plasmas, anyone with a few athena can take that down without losses... so don't worry about pumping it up too much more until then. Spend those resources on tech/ships/mines for now...
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Offline Marlboro Mann

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2010, 05:13:31 PM »
"There are people willing to attack without profit just to knock down a defense."

.....I am one of those     :twisted:
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Offline Xela

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2010, 11:20:23 PM »
My strategy is 0 defense! Just interplanetary ballistic ;)
But thats more offensive.
If you understood the game like me you would realize defense is a waste and could only be used if you screw up your fleetsave
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Offline Overlord Othinslayer

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2010, 11:58:32 PM »
For a newer player, I would suggest only building up enough defenses to protect whatever your mines produce while you are offline.  I usually built
1 Decoy
10 Missles
5 Laser

This is enough to dissuade those atlas/herc solo raids.  If you don't leave resources on your planets this is enough to protect your overnight resources from most players, as there is most likely another planet they can target easier.
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Offline Ekij

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2010, 01:36:19 PM »
Quote from: "Xela"
If you understood the game like me you would realize defense is a waste

This is an opinion and not a very valid one.
If you are checking the computer every hour defences are not necessary.
If you only raid and have no minerals on your planets defences are not necessary.

Assuming you're a normal player, you sleep for 8 hours and have mines producing minerals while you sleep. Depending on how active your neighbours are you will loose these minerals to raids from time to time.
Whether or not it's worth building defences to disuade these raids while you're not at your computer depends on how strong your neighbours are, how often they scan you, how intimidating you are (since I broke rank 5000 people rarely hunt my mining worlds, they're after my fleet now).

I would say some defences are always useful, personally I build more than the average but people who claim that none are necessary are either on the computer 24/7 or mistaken.

EDIT:
I should add that there is no right number of defences. I add to my defences a little every day, days when I'm probed a lot I add more than days I'm not probed but creeping it up a little all the time helps.
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Offline wolfie

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2010, 01:56:57 PM »
i produce 25K recources a hour on each off my 5 main planets and sleep about 8 hours !
so produce 200K recourses during sleep time
if i not had defences on those planets i am 100% sure that there would be at least 1 raid on each planet for the recources and blowing the few helios in progress.

i find that 10-20 missiles and lasers with 5 gauss and some abm's protect those recources effectifly every night !
not have had a raid during my sleeptime !
i calculate a 2 day production worth of recources invested in defences protect the overnight production on my planets effectif.

2 of my planets are producing ships overnight and have some more heavy defences i just added 3 plasma and 5 more gauss and some pulse/particle there and they did their job also

not have been attacked overnight yet !!
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Offline texasman77

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2010, 02:08:29 PM »
I ran across a defense like that one.  Only exception was that it had fewer ABM's.  I think I remember 20-30.  Still, I figured that it would take about 200 nukes to take the place down.  

IMHO... one word.. PLASMA...  If you want to put the hurt on someone attacking, and you fleet resource save regularly.. Then Plasmas are the surest defense.  Now they don't do it alone but I take notice of plasmas way before anything else on that defense list.  Those puppies will take down big ships with one shot and you can expect to loose just as much if you bring fodder or not.
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Offline Rubi

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2010, 02:43:04 PM »
Quote from: "texasman77"
IMHO... one word.. PLASMA...  If you want to put the hurt on someone attacking, and you fleet resource save regularly.. Then Plasmas are the surest defense.  Now they don't do it alone but I take notice of plasmas way before anything else on that defense list.  Those puppies will take down big ships with one shot and you can expect to loose just as much if you bring fodder or not.

And including a few hundred missile batteries or lasers will slow the attack down, hopefully causing a second round (or more).  Just remember, each plasma shot will normally take out a ship.  If you build 10 plasmas and can keep the raider attacking for 6 rounds, that's potentially 60 big ships that bite the dust.  Not a bad return on investment.  And if you have 1000 missiles and 750 lasers, 20 gauss, small and large decoy you stand a good chance.

The above should deal with 100x Hades and 100x Athenas attacking.  Even if the raider shoves 500x smaller ships in the mix they'll still lose more than half their fleet, and end up with a draw.  Add 50x Ares and they'll win but the cost will be big.

Obviously proms will help them, but at least you know the hydro costs will have hurt! ;)

Don't diss defence.  It's no use if the raider wants to get you at any cost, but it can be a brilliant deterrant!
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Offline Amodius

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2010, 06:43:43 AM »
In another thread, I posted my view of a defense mindset vs a fleet mindset. I don't consider either of them to be "the best", they're just different play styles.

Somewhere in between turtling your bases, and keeping as much resources as you can off planets (whether it's hauled off, or has it's own warp drive), you'll find a playstyle that works for you, and that you're comfortable with.

To add: I wanted to make a thread here in the strategy section entitled Playstyles, and discuss those two methods, and see if some of the veteran players had any other methods they wanted to add, but I can't figure out how to post a new thread.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 06:51:18 AM by Amodius »

Offline Perseus

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2010, 06:50:31 AM »
Quote from: "Amodius"
In another thread, I posted my view of a defense mindset vs a fleet mindset. I don't consider either of them to be "the best", they're just different play styles.

Somewhere in between turtling your bases, and keeping as much resources as you can off planets (whether it's hauled off, or has it's own warp drive), you'll find a playstyle that works for you, and that you're comfortable with.

The only use for defenses I have is to protect overnight resource production and midnight raids that come back while I'm asleep from inactives that couldn't wait 3 hours to be attacked. Building something like 12,000 laser cannons is just stupid. (no, that's not a joke. See the thread with "turtle elimination service" in the title in the battle reports section.  :? )
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Offline Aaria.moon

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2010, 08:24:46 AM »
Ah, now I know who you are perseus :)
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Offline Perseus

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2010, 06:42:50 PM »
Quote from: "Aaria.moon"
Ah, now I know who you are perseus :)

I would hope so, since that's my in-game name also...  ;)
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Offline Killigan

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2010, 05:11:44 PM »
You guys have a lot of probably good suggestions as to what would be a good defense, but all of you are leaving out the relevant half of the equation, which is what would be a good defense for X amount of resources[/color]?

100 Hades, 50 Prometheus, 500 Apollo, 300 Missile, 100 Pulse, 50 ABM are not necessary to defend a planet that has < 100,000 total resources.

Ignoring for moment the 1% of idiots that spend 20 million in resources to attack planets with 54 ore, 29 crystal and 200 hydro.

So, how about modifying the question to "What would be a good level defense for each 1,000,000 resources?"

Thanks

Killem All
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Offline Ekij

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2010, 06:51:33 PM »
Quote from: "Killigan"
What would be a good level defense for each 1,000,000 resources?"Killem All

The real answer to that is "Just a little bit more than the person beside you spent to protect their 1 000 000 resources."
It's all about being less attractive than your neighbour.
But thats not what you wanted to see.

To make me seriously consider not coming for your 1M resources you'd need to have something like:
150 Missile
150 Laser
50 Pulse
50 Plasma [I meant Particle]
25 Gauss
10 Plasma
Both decoys (and enough ABMs that it's not worth taking down with IPBMs)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 02:01:08 PM by Ekij »
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Offline azzaron

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Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2010, 12:24:00 AM »
What Erij says is right. However, I would still come after 1M resources with the D he provided - it has almost no fodder. To make me think twice about it, I would have to see something like this:

500 Missile
500 Laser
50 Pulse
50 Particle
40 Gauss
10 Plasma

Plus both decoys and obviously enough ABMs to protect it.

I should also point out that Erij listed Plasmas twice; he meant Pulse the first time he listed it. But it's fun to point out his error   :P
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