Author Topic: So, just how big is a Heph?  (Read 2257 times)

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Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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So, just how big is a Heph?
« on: September 29, 2019, 03:07:29 PM »
The artwork shows the Heph as being a physical ship.  That concept might have worked in the past, but it doesn't work anymore!

I had too much spare time the other day and started fiddling around with a "Heph concept".  Here is what I posted to the internal HOD message boards.

The amazing thing about a Heph is that it is a "virtual ship", whose dimensions are defined using energy fields. As your fleet grows and you need more volume, the remotely-guided platforms that contain the field generators can be moved farther from the Heph's engineering and power structures, thereby expanding the volume that is enclosed by your Warp fields. In the extreme, a Heph can be used to shepherd a max battle fleet, which includes 9.223 Quintillion of each other ship type -- including Zeuses. Given that each Zeus is about the size of Earth's natural satellite, Luna, the Heph's energy fields have to encompass a volume that is about the size of a sphere with a radius of 2.8 billion miles -- about the distance of Neptune from Sol.

How!  A virtual transporter that is the size of our solar system, out to the orbit of the most remote planet, Neptune (sorry about that, Pluto!).

There is one assumption here -- that a Zeus is about the size of the earth's moon.  I'm taking this assumption from David Weber's "Dahak" science fiction series, in which it is discovered that our moon actually is an ancient, camouflaged, intelligent super-battleship named Dahak. 

The thing about a max fleet, including max Z's in the fleet, actually is a reality.  MR P actually has multiple max Z-fleets available to him,including one on his Heph.

Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 04:08:34 PM »
And here is the basis for the calculation for the diameter of the Heph's enclosing energy fields.

The calculation was pretty crude. I calculated the volume of a cube that had dimensions equal to the diameter of the moon, multiplied that by 9.223 quintillion, and calculated the radius of a sphere that would have that volume.

So, our Z's are really snugged in with either other, stacked top-touching bottom. We could go with a denser packing that might save some space, but I imagine our Zeus commanders might not like being even more crowded than I've described.

There should be lots of space in there for all the other ships, maybe they could have competitions during the trip -- races in the "dead space" around all the Z's!

Offline nomadd40

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 03:34:22 AM »
If the Hep. is the size of Neptune from Sol.
Then that would start knocking planets around when it came in system. What if you used the idea from Dune of folding space inside the Hep. You would have a infinity amount of space to use and could unfold it launching your ships.
No Borg ever won a war dying for the collective. Only decimating, or assimilating the other poor species.
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Offline ML1

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2019, 04:14:18 AM »
I think we can all agree.

"It's bigger on the inside"


Offline Admiral T-Wayne

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2019, 01:10:33 PM »
nomad,

I like that idea!  Sort of like Dr Who's Tardis.

Offline Dead Zone

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2019, 04:39:42 AM »
Fascinating

Offline Tybors Master

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2019, 05:00:56 PM »
Given the size, given the mass of ships and resouces aboard.....

Perhaps another issue would be not just coming into a solar orbit disiplacing other planets/moons and throwing the enitire gravity situation into dissaray,) but landing the heph/ships/resources on a Lunar Dock.

Perhaps the gravity change created by that total mass, would make the moon become too heavy for it's orbit to be sustained, and it will come crashing down onto the planet.

It would save having to transfer the resources.....

Offline Cooper385

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2019, 12:40:48 PM »
        With the ability to create "Stargates" and warp from 1 location to another would it not be possible that advancements have also allowed for the breakdown of solid matter to it's "transport form" and allow much more to go into much less?  At some point during your warp phase you are neither here,  nor there.  That in between state is what allows the heph to carry so much,  yet use so little hydro to get you there.  Upon deployment you are simply returned,  warped if you will,  back to the ships original form before being "loaded" onto the heph.  The heph is essentially carrying "nothing"  while,   in actuality,  carrying everything.  To enter the heph you simply go through a "warp gate" that goes nowhere.  When leaving the heph you exit the "warp gate" heading for your desired location as a fully restored ship.  The heph itself.....could be no larger than a dead end warp gate.  This poses the question...  How big is a warp gate?

Offline Tal-Khoraash

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 12:24:37 AM »
A Warp Gate is constructed upon a moon.

Moons have a minimum radius of 3,605 and a maximum radius of 8,944 (Kilometers? Miles? Li? Cubits? Who knows? Earth's Moon is 2,158.8 miles {3,474.2 kilometers} in diameter and the Earth itself is 7,917.5 miles {12,742 kilometers} in diameter, so your guess is as good as mine as to what distance measurement for moons is actually in use).

All that aside, Warp Gates, being constructed upon a moon, must therefore be smaller than said moon, even though you can somehow Warp an entire 9.223 quintillion ships of every type all at once, and have it arrive safely at the destination (I assume it does. I suppose nothing can be at the destination moon? Never having that amount of ships to Warp, I can't answer what would happen. T-Wayne? Inquiring minds want to know, lol).

I think Nomad is on the right track with his folded space theory, both for the interior of the Heph and to Warp from Gate to Gate without drastically altering the mass and thus orbit of either the sending or destination moon.
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Offline Zylphyr

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2020, 11:07:09 AM »
I love necromancing threads....  :P

I play very differently in my roleplaying...  :P

I always found the ships advancement a bit odd, so in my roleplay, each ship is roughly the same size, just the technology has changed.  A bit like cars... we didn't need to get bigger to get better. 

The all new Z fleet is still about the size of the USS Defiant, and the largest ship, by far, in my fleet.  Prior to the Z, all ships were science vessels, but with the advent and expansion of the Krug, Urcath and Seekers, we were forced to create battleships.  They're much slower because the technology to implement a warp drive doesn't mesh with the technology for the sorts of shields and weaponry we have to use.  Fortunately, the shields include a cloaking system which my science vessels do not have (since the reverse is also true that the shields wouldn't mesh with the warp drives).

Completely re-theming the entirety of the ships was the only way to justify the speed of a Zeus being as bad as it is.  :P   

The Heph itself is, of course, near planet-size, but also has a vast shield that can't be installed on a ship with a warp coil.  But my version of the Heph is a plug-n-play Dion.  He's big enough to engulf a debris field entirely with quadrillions of arms jetting out and pulling debris fields into the holds before I immediately reactivate my cloak/shield, and continue on my journey.  Each dion is permanently 'docked' in its place doing little more than reaching out and absorbing debris as we pass by. 

Offline Vladinator

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2021, 09:27:36 PM »
Two engineering students were biking across a university campus when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?" The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday, minding my own business, when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike, threw it to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, "Take what you want." The first engineer nodded approvingly and said, "Good choice: The clothes probably wouldn't have fit you anyway."

Offline Vladinator

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Re: So, just how big is a Heph?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2021, 09:28:28 PM »
An engineer was crossing a road one day, when a frog called out
to him and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess."
He bent over, picked up the frog, and put it in his pocket.
The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn back into a beautiful princess and stay with you for one week."
The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and
returned it to the pocket. The frog then cried out,
"If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess,
I'll stay with you for one week and do anything you want."
Again, the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put
it back into his pocket.
Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess and that I'll stay with you for one week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"
The engineer said, "Look, I'm an engineer.
I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog - now that's cool."