Starfleet Commander Forum

Starfleet Commander => Extreme Universe 2 => Topic started by: angelblue on August 28, 2012, 07:55:38 PM

Title: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: angelblue on August 28, 2012, 07:55:38 PM
I don't see any new information here.

Specifically:

So now we have monster NPCs in x2. We've seen them. They give more resources than mines, even great mines.

Do they still give DSP? The sample below has no ships but others will, I assume. It's the end of the game if they do. It may still be the end of the game if they don't, I'm not sure.

Date: 2012-08-28 19:38:11 UTC
has:
* ore: 881,595,925 
* crystal: 890,291,179 
* hydrogen: 315,207,660 
================================
Total plunder: 1,043,547,382 (41742 herc / 208710 atlas)
Dios needed: 0 (0 DSP)

SEEKERS'S SHIPS:

DEFENSES: (22996 nukes needed)
* Missile Battery: 737,703
* Laser Cannon: 197,833
* Pulse Cannon: 25,072
* Particle Cannon: 17,845
* Gauss Cannon: 5,252
* Plasma Cannon: 3,611
* Decoy: 1
* Large Decoy: 1
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: kenneth on August 28, 2012, 08:06:58 PM
Supposed to give DSP and DF.   That is a monster.. geeze.. 
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Commander Steve on August 28, 2012, 08:30:12 PM
Angel, I just hit one and it said I got 133,000 DSP.  Kinda hope they change that.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: angelblue on August 28, 2012, 08:39:42 PM
yes I did too, according to the battle report, as a test. will know for sure after the hour, since BFG doesn't deign to answer.
I have no desire to play farmville with NPCs. To me this is a game killer, I think.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on August 28, 2012, 08:52:56 PM
Agreed. I've just hit one of these in Uni2, nothing like as big, obviously, but still stupidly large. When I've crunched the numbers I'll start a thread in the General Discussion forum. It's pretty obvious what the purpose of these is.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Boris Alden on August 28, 2012, 08:54:53 PM
Encounter Large Floating Colony [xx.xx.xx] has:
RESOURCES:
* ore: 329,221,537 
* crystal: 239,249,645 
* hydrogen: 95,147,856 
================================
Total plunder: 331,809,519 (2655 carm / 13273 herc / 66362 atlas)
DSP: 522,639
KRUG'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 7,056
* Atlas Class Cargo: 5,879
* Apollo Class Fighter: 6,850
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 4,149
* Hercules Class Cargo: 3,761
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 2,283
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 2,606
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 138
* Athena Class Battleship: 1,067
* Ares Class Bomber: 259
* Hades Class Battleship: 746
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 90
* Zeus Class: 5

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 176,990
* Laser Cannon: 81,810
* Pulse Cannon: 7,811
* Particle Cannon: 5,889
* Gauss Cannon: 2,462
* Plasma Cannon: 1,281
* Decoy: 1
* Large Decoy: 1

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 18
* Weapons Tech: 18
* Shield Tech: 18

Things gonna get mad in here.....
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 09:06:41 PM
Sweet Jesus mother of mary! I need more Ares!
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Matt H on August 28, 2012, 09:16:13 PM
NPCs will continue to award DSP in those universes where they have awarded DSP in the past.

We'll continue to make downward adjustments to the resources as we monitor the spawning of new NPCs.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: angelblue on August 28, 2012, 09:18:22 PM
This is a game killer for me. I will give BFG 48 hours to reconsider, then will rage quit, I think. That should be fun! Ali Baba, shall I crash my fleet into you?
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 09:18:56 PM
this is going to get fun


Encounter Floating Colony [1:67:12e] has:
* ore: 218,580,872 
* crystal: 193,614,110 
* hydrogen: 58,365,781 
================================
Total plunder: 235,280,381 (9412 herc / 47057 atlas)

URCATH'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 2,644
* Atlas Class Cargo: 4,838
* Apollo Class Fighter: 777
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 1,120
* Hercules Class Cargo: 4,318
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 459
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 586
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 154
* Athena Class Battleship: 151
* Ares Class Bomber: 200
* Hades Class Battleship: 335
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 232
* Zeus Class: 3

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 61,244
* Laser Cannon: 23,301
* Pulse Cannon: 1,784
* Particle Cannon: 2,610
* Gauss Cannon: 1,324
* Plasma Cannon: 506
* Decoy: 1
* Large Decoy: 1

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 13
* Weapons Tech: 13
* Shield Tech: 13


With the DF i would make:
Debris now floating: 48,896,400 Ore, 34,207,650 Crystal. Recyclers required: 4156.
And OCH Loot

Total plunder available. Ore: 109,290,436, Crystal: 96,807,055, Hydrogen: 29,182,890

To launch at the target from where i am it would cost me 7mil Hydro this Attack would be massive Profit!!!



Read my lips This uni is going to get very interesting very fast!!!
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 09:20:15 PM
Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell send it in 5 waves im down in G1 somewhere :P more then sure you lot have got an eye on me!
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Mama on August 28, 2012, 09:28:35 PM
BFG have mucked around with the game for over a year now.
Today they have finally managed to fun it up completely



Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Sam Carter on August 28, 2012, 09:37:23 PM
Ali, you think hunting NPC's is fun????

Are you going to declare War on them?
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 09:39:02 PM
Well if you dont like it you know what you can do. Is there any more AA-DPZ out there that want to slam this?

This is BFG trying to keep this game alive and kicking! they want you to be able to turn on your PC log on to the game and get hunting as soon as you ships get in not muck about stalking a tartget for weeks that ends up getting hit by someone else! because most of the players on this game dont have the time just to sit at there desk all day playing games i know i dont iv got 2 children, 15pups and a god forsaken cat that is about to give birth underneath my telly!!! I dont have time to be probing like mad no more and stalking a target like i used to i want to be able to log on find a target and smash the brains out of it!!
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 09:40:50 PM
Ali, you think hunting NPC's is fun????

Are you going to declare War on them?

Better then farming inactive's and yes i would do if i could it would be a War one of Epic-ness  and story's that would be told for bed times for years to follow
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Sam Carter on August 28, 2012, 09:45:50 PM
Well if you dont like it you know what you can do. Is there any more AA-DPZ out there that want to slam this?

This is BFG trying to keep this game alive and kicking! they want you to be able to turn on your PC log on to the game and get hunting as soon as you ships get in not muck about stalking a tartget for weeks that ends up getting hit by someone else! because most of the players on this game dont have the time just to sit at there desk all day playing games i know i dont iv got 2 children, 15pups and a god forsaken cat that is about to give birth underneath my telly!!! I dont have time to be probing like mad no more and stalking a target like i used to i want to be able to log on find a target and smash the brains out of it!!

So you agree there is no skill involved anymore, just who finds the NPC first.

Give you 2 weeks of probing NPC's and I'm sure you will get bored.

Plus if you do not have much time for this game, then you will get far behind, as those who can hit NPC's all day will leave you behind.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Mama on August 28, 2012, 09:46:09 PM
Quote
This is BFG trying to keep this game alive and kicking!

Alive and kicking??? you got to be joking -- but hey if your happy getting inflated DSP for hitting NPC with massive resources go ahead.

This game used be a game of skill now its just like playing a race to the first NPC
Within a month what out for monster fleets that will only attack NPCs

But since you do not have time to hunt I would suggest a game like farmville for you to play
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: colesynow on August 28, 2012, 09:53:23 PM
ale ale moaning again....too scared that other players are finally going to catch them up and narrow the gap.....

why can you not just appreciate what the devs do to the game instead of only complaining about things which narrow your leads
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 09:53:48 PM
OOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo NOw LOOK WHO IS TALKING ABOUT DSP YOU AA CANT SAY NOTHING how many times do you probe hop or share in on attacks????? huh bets its more time then i hit npc's?????

And who needs skill to enjoy a computer game???? i cant draw or design for nothing but i still log days at a time in to minecraft im dyslexic to the high heavens but i still enjoy this game. Fact i hate frsing on this game so much i much rather ask my wife help me out then try do it myself....where is the skill in that its about fun and enjoying our selfs and if you want to hit and hunt active players fine what about letting the part time players hit npc's.

 
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: PIERBURG on August 28, 2012, 09:55:48 PM
How about you get half the dsp for a npc and from what i can see it still need work lol
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: neonnative on August 28, 2012, 09:56:26 PM
in my opinion, hitting NPC's is kinda like masturbation...... :P
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 09:58:03 PM
in my opinion, hitting NPC's is kinda like masturbation...... :P

Tell me more
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Sam Carter on August 28, 2012, 09:58:54 PM
Awwww     AA is complaining again....

Can you not come up with something original!!!!

Enjoy your NPC hunting.
I hope you get real enjoyment out of it..
I'm going to go and tend to my crops in farmville.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 10:01:58 PM
Awwww     AA is complaining again....

Can you not come up with something original!!!!

Enjoy your NPC hunting.
I hope you get real enjoyment out of it..
I'm going to go and tend to my crops in farmville.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rPe0BtYvTA Bye have a nice day Samantha
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: The Admiral on August 28, 2012, 10:04:24 PM
It should say something that Ali Baba, one of the biggest twats to ever play the game, is one of the few who sees these massive NPC's as a good thing.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 10:08:57 PM
Is that the best you can come up with??? calling me names. Yea i see it as a good thing as it will help boost my low ranked Alliance mate's to a higher lever. Iv got 2 friends in my Alliance that dont like Attacking players wanna know why well its because there to nice for there own good!!!!!
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 10:09:25 PM
Plus i would love to have the chance to smash one myself to
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on August 28, 2012, 10:40:54 PM
ale ale moaning again....too scared that other players are finally going to catch them up and narrow the gap.....

why can you not just appreciate what the devs do to the game instead of only complaining about things which narrow your leads

I guess you're the kind that thinks playing slots is a game of skill as well
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Jacq on August 28, 2012, 10:46:00 PM
It's a game not life or death.     Play it for fun instead of complaining about everything.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: angelblue on August 28, 2012, 10:55:50 PM
krown, mama, sue, andy.... we are wasting our breath. it's obvious the only ones who care, or see this as a dis-improvement, are AA.
let them play farmville.
i'm gone unless things change, and that doesn't appear likely.
i'm tired of fighting BFG instead of other players.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on August 28, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Everyone assumes that AA are always out to bitch and complain about everything. We're not. We actually have an interest in maintaining the integrity and enjoyment of the game for everyone. We could all shut up, hit every NPC we see and inflate our scores and pat each other on the back on how skilled we are at hitting an AI target that doesn't fight back.

We don't do that because we aren't selfish players. People who continue to fight to keep ridiculously scaled NPCs in X2 are selfish, and only want to see this through for personal gains.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 11:08:18 PM
Nice speach
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on August 28, 2012, 11:14:09 PM
FYI -

http://forum.playstarfleet.com/index.php?topic=17924.0 (http://forum.playstarfleet.com/index.php?topic=17924.0)

And please let's not turn it into a personal fight.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Fleet Pirate on August 28, 2012, 11:16:46 PM
My two cents...the new NPC's are not a good thing.  Nope, not a member of AA either.  I like playing by skill (hunting other players) not luck (being the first to see an NPC).  This changes the basic concept of the game to me.  However, I won't bitch without making a suggestion on how to maybe fix the problem.  I know BFG will NOT change things, so how about adding the ability to oracle the NPC's?  At least then I can chase player fleets.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on August 28, 2012, 11:44:04 PM
What I'd you could only moon the larger types of NPC???
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: The Admiral on August 29, 2012, 12:24:35 AM
What I'd you could only moon the larger types of NPC???
Do you mean to ask, "What if you could oracle scan the larger NPC's?"  If so, that has been suggested before.  No idea if BFG plans on making that happen.  I seriously doubt it though, because that would put players' fleets in actual danger.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Sean Sti on August 29, 2012, 02:57:19 AM
Glad I got out when I did...  I loved this game when hunting real life players. The trill of the hunt watching someone for days...  Getting up at 3 AM to land a big hit.   It is what made this game different.  It was not just about getting on the Xbox/PS3 and PvP'ing on other players in a death match.  One had to plan your real life around your FRS times...  Now it is Farmville or like any number of other games out there. :'(   

What is it that BFG says  Adapt or Die.  Will I have adapted...  I get to sleep in on Saturday and Sundays now. ;)

Sean
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Sam Carter on August 29, 2012, 05:22:49 AM
Those who think that this will give the smaller players a chance to catch up, you are wrong. You only need to look at the top players in Nova, where the hephs are overflowing were we can't spend the resources quick enough.  All the hard work is gone, mines become less important, when you can gain enough resources to double your fleet in a few weeks. (It only took a few days to do this in Nova)
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on August 29, 2012, 06:07:41 AM
It's the same in Uni2. I've made more than 10 days mine production (@ 40/33/34) in 12 hours, plus increased my DSP by almost 50%.

So far.

Once it's all spent, I'll have boosted my overall score (that took me 2 years to get) by about 10% in 12 hours.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: ... on August 29, 2012, 07:25:12 AM
I don't post much, but this is garbage, think about the ones who saved up, built their mines, took months to do, and now a few hits and you can out-produce all of my output. I got amazing mines, that are pretty much useless now.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on August 29, 2012, 07:46:46 AM
I wasn't even gonna go there, but I spent 2 years building up huge mines for an endgame killer account in Uni2. Worthless overnight.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Chekkin on August 29, 2012, 07:47:11 AM
I don't post much, but this is garbage, think about the ones who saved up, built their mines, took months to do, and now a few hits and you can out-produce all of my output. I got amazing mines, that are pretty much useless now.

Make sure you tear them down so your RSP falls. You will get more DSP from hits against NPCs.

 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Despicableme on August 29, 2012, 10:15:21 AM
I think it will make things more interesting. People will be droping in with heph's to take some of these out. You can always o'lock the heph. It is great for smaller players who don't have a huge fleet that can compete with the larger players. They are all geared to size, so there is something for everyone. Like this one... Only a big boy could be taking this...

Encounter Large Floating Colony [X:XX:X] has:
* ore: 2,147,483,647 
* crystal: 1,282,227,382 
* hydrogen: 438,434,145 
================================
Total plunder: 1,934,072,587 (77363 herc / 386815 atlas)
Dios needed: 36178.9 (2,638,330.5 DSP)

URCATH'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 10,765
* Atlas Class Cargo: 19,142
* Apollo Class Fighter: 4,861
* Hercules Class Cargo: 16,469
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 8,772
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 10,865
* Athena Class Battleship: 7,341
* Ares Class Bomber: 3,985
* Hades Class Battleship: 1,674
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 6,283
* Zeus Class: 8

DEFENSES: (10758 nukes needed)
* Missile Battery: 374,717
* Laser Cannon: 100,876
* Pulse Cannon: 10,720
* Particle Cannon: 6,986
* Gauss Cannon: 2,728
* Plasma Cannon: 2,101
* Decoy: 1
* Large Decoy: 1

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 14
* Weapons Tech: 14
* Shield Tech: 14

The chance of your probes being intercepted is 51%

Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on August 29, 2012, 10:34:14 AM
You'd have to be an idiot to send a Heph after an NPC when you can attack it with 100% safety from a moon. Anyway, if it's far enough away that it's worthwhile sending a Heph, it'll likely be gone by the time the Heph gets there.

Anyway (again), what are you doing wasting your ships on a Heph when you should have them on gates to respond to NPCs as soon as you see them in any galaxy?

Yes, they're geared to player size, but do you not understand that while a player ranked #1000 is making, say, 50m OCH from an NPC, a player ranked #100 is making 500m OCH? And how when the #100 rank spends the 500m OCH his NPCs get bigger as well? So his next one makes 550m OCH while the #1000 players next NPC makes him 55m OCH?

You start with a gap of 450m, and after one iteration it's a gap of 945m. And the gap gets bigger faster than you can keep track of it. If you've ever lived in a country that's had runaway inflation, ask someone who can remember it about what it was like. It's precisely the same thing, and it's Not Good.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Matt H on August 29, 2012, 03:32:13 PM
We want to thank everyone who has provided us with detailed feedback over the past 24 hours regarding the 'new' NPCs in Nova, Universe 2, and Extreme Universe 2. We have been listening to your feedback and we are going to make a few additional changes to the 'new' NPCs so that we can continue to improve them for all players.

The primary goal of NPCs is to provide small and mid level players alternative opportunities to learn how to hunt, to find targets suitable for them to attack, and for them to gain resources to allow them to grow as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, we experience some difficulty in scaling the NPCs to accommodate this goal in universes such as Universe 2 and Extreme Universe 2 because of the newbie protection rules being used there.

The secondary goal of NPCs, and in particular these 'new' NPCs, is to increase activity in the games. This is being accomplished as is evidenced by the fact that a number of players have found a new or renewed interest in attacking (some making large gains on their previously small amounts of DSP) and are therefore playing the game more actively. We're aware that this activity may be inflated by the current algorithms that we are using to spawn NPCs, but we hope that even with additional changes that we will continue to see these higher activity levels in all Universes.

So what are we going to do with 'new' NPCs now?

First, we are going to change the formula we are using to determine resources on NPCs. The effect of this is that profit margins will be significantly higher on lower to mid level NPCs and significantly lower on the high level NPCs. We'll continue to make changes to this formula until we feel that it's right for all of the Universes and we hope that you'll continue to provide us with your thoughts and input regarding what you are seeing in the game.

Second, we are going to apply the newbie protection rule currently in use in Nova to NPCs in all Universes where the 'new' NPCs have been deployed. This means that in Universe 2 and Extreme Universe 2, once you break the 25,000RSP you'll be able to attack any players that are also over 25,000RSP. However, you'll only be able to attack NPCs that are 1/5th to 5 times your size until you reach 250,000RSP at which point you will then be able to attack NPCs that are 1/10th to 10 times your size. This effect will also be applied to other Universes when 'new' NPCs are deployed there.

These two changes taken in combination allow us to tailor the low to mid range NPCs to reach our goal of propelling newer players through the game while reducing the effect of NPCs in the later game and in turn restoring some of the player versus player aspect of Starfleet Commander that many of our more advanced players enjoy.

But what about DSP?

We want you to know that we have heard your feedback on destroyed ship points being awarded for attacking NPCs. While we believe that DSP is best awarded for only attacking active players, which is why Nova, Tournament, and any potential future Universes or Tournament Seasons will follow this practice, we understand that players in the older Universes have come to expect DSP for destroying any ships. So at this time, we've opted not to remove or alter DSP awarded for attacking NPCs. We believe that the changes noted above will lessen the impact NPCs on the DSP leader board, but we will continue to monitor your feedback. If necessary, we may place a modifier on DSP awarded for attacking NPCs so that you only receive a fraction of a point for destroying ships when compared to attacking live players.

We believe that these changes address many of the concerns being raised and we will continue to monitor the feedback from players and make additional changes as necessary. Thank you for your continued support and feedback.

We will be making the changes above at approximately 17:00UTC, but we will post an update when they are live.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Mama on August 29, 2012, 03:36:08 PM
So inflated DSP still remains for the larger NPC  ::)

So far the fixes are similar to sticking a band aid on a severed artery
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Whitford on August 29, 2012, 03:46:38 PM
i think this is a good idea, it allows the lower ranked players to get res to build up more. For all you top players who complaining about this imagine how much more ships will be available for you to smash. Will be more so now due to the lacking players who play. I think they should make the dsp you gain from hitting a npc seperate from dsp hitting players. Like have it pdsp for players and ndsp  for npc or something and make the ndsp worth way less for your ranking.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on August 29, 2012, 04:09:44 PM
If you've ever lived in a country that's had runaway inflation, ask someone who can remember it about what it was like. It's precisely the same thing, and it's Not Good.
Heh....

"On 2 February 2009, the RBZ announced that a further 12 zeros were to be taken off the currency, with 1,000,000,000,000 (third) Zimbabwe dollars being exchanged for 1 new (fourth) dollar."

It gets worse. Pay attention to the two dates (above and below) here:

"On 12 April 2009, media outlets reported that economic planning minister Elton Mangoma had announced the suspension of the local currency "for at least a year", effectively terminating the fourth dollar."

For perspective... "the 'fourth dollar' (ZWL) which was worth 1 trillion ZWR (third dollar) and 10 septillion 'first dollar' ZWD"
Source: Wikipedia


Now two points I want to address... 1) I want to re-highlight another point that someone else made in the other thread that I think deserves to be reposted, because it is incredibly important. While some might say, "I'm still just a weeks time behind player X and I'll scale up like him, so no big deal, lets keep the NPCs..." consider how this gap between players will affect you if you ever decide to GA someone bigger than you. If the player that is 50 spots ahead of you on the LB is only twice the RSP of you, assuming similar RSP distribution between mines and fleet, then probably it would take a 6 person GA of people your rank to take his fleet. Now put things on this hyperinflated path, and the same guy that is still only 50 ranks above is now 4x your RSP. This means a GA is now effectively impossible, even if you can catch him napping. A game where the bigger guy can easily take everyone below him and the smaller guys can never take a bigger target will get very boring, as it means everyone, and I mean EVERYONE will simply experience being picked on by the bigger guy sooner or later.

2) To those saying, "Hey this is just for fun, who cares..." ask yourself if you are still playing Farmville or whatever other games are out there that cater to those with short attention spans and low requirements for being entertained during conference calls at work. There is a difference between short term "fun" and long term enjoyment. Fun that wears out in two weeks time after the grind sets in, isn't healthy for the game. It's just not. Doing drugs is "fun" too for the short term. But the long term consequences are serious, and ask that meth head who has been strung out for a year if they are still having "fun" with it. A bit of a dramatic analogy, I admit, but I think it is appropriate in a way. People are gorging on NPCs, and I can tell you from playing Nova for months, the grind of doing this after a couple months completely eliminates the fun factor. If you play casually, you will find your rank dropping like a rock, because the guy next to you is spending 12 hours a day raiding NPCs. If you then play hard core to keep up with that guy, you might have some fun for a few weeks..."Hey, I'm playing a lot again!!! wooot", but guess what. Shooting at things that don't shoot back eventually feels like running missions in Mafia Wars. Just click click click. For what? Just to keep up. The treadmill has been turned up a notch.

And it runs the hunters out of the game because as has been pointed out many, many times from those playing Nova, where greater profit is in NPCs than hunting active players, hunters end up not being able to hunt because their fleet is too small. This forces them to grind on NPCs as well to keep up with NPC farmers. Which they hate doing. Which they get bored with after one week.

And the NPC farmer goes, "GREAT!!! No one is hunting me anymore, I'm safe like I always wanted to be..." Then they eventually realize that the danger aspect actually gave the game excitement, and without it, the boredom sets in a lot faster. The race to build the highest level Smurf village really isn't that much fun when there is no real Gargamel to squash it.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on August 29, 2012, 04:19:55 PM
Unfortunately, we experience some difficulty in scaling the NPCs to accommodate this goal in universes such as Universe 2 and Extreme Universe 2 because of the newbie protection rules being used there.
Basically you just admitted that BFG rolled these out without considering even the most basic factors such as how newbie protection differences will interact with the NPC changes.

Where is the facepalm emoticon?

Enough with the experimentation on live unis trying to figure it out. It would almost be tolerable if you just ruined Nova before getting it right and implementing elsewhere, after learning from the experience there. But you didn't learn from the experience there, and proceeded to steamroll this agenda to other unis, and stubbed your toe on the exact same crack in the sidewalk. Repeating the same mistake twice is simply unacceptable.

I just find it highly ironic that on one hand it is stated that these are supposed to model other players, but I've never seen players with billions sitting on a planet. Modeling the fleets and not modeling how much res...... Well, NOW players DO have that much res sitting around, so new NPCs if they do model current players in all aspects will be way overpowered. Self fulfilling prophecy.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Mama on August 29, 2012, 04:54:05 PM
Message from Andy
Big S what do you think of this?



<<< i have also been thinking about the spawn range of the NPCs, based on the player rank and location...
What about if the NPC pick ups a player that is in the lower 50 SS and the upper 50SS of a galaxy, the spawn range will be limited to half of what is suppose to be, hence the high spawning rate in the lower G1...

Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on August 29, 2012, 05:07:29 PM
Message from Andy
Big S what do you think of this?



<<< i have also been thinking about the spawn range of the NPCs, based on the player rank and location...
What about if the NPC pick ups a player that is in the lower 50 SS and the upper 50SS of a galaxy, the spawn range will be limited to half of what is suppose to be, hence the high spawning rate in the lower G1...
I dropped out of Nova right before these changes, so I can't personally observe, but it makes logical sense that this would happen. They pick players randomly, then range is randomly determined, and since it can't pick from a wrap-around range to the other end of the G, it does half the number of possible systems they can spawn in. So if there was a ratio of players to NPCs, the ratio of NPCs would be higher than in other parts of the galaxy, but still relative to population. So two players sitting in the lower 50 systems won't seem to have more NPCs relative to an area that has 4 or 5 players in a similar size area not in the top/bottom. But relative to player population it would be about double.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: new starr federation on August 30, 2012, 03:20:27 PM
Well i think those big players crying about the changes are only afraid its going to knock them out of their hard earned spots...me being rank 20 makes it a lil harder to hold on to that spot..im all for it...i for the first time since the version started seen our alliance boards lit up with activity from this change players that have always been farmers and ship collectors wer nailing those green SOBs..it was absolutely amazing how much of an impact it has made..

i think there needs to be a special leader boards section for NPC DSP..i have 50m of REAL DSP and for that im proud..anyone agree?

Also the NPCs need to be oracle scannable but without the players locations from wer the attack is launched...
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on August 30, 2012, 04:43:27 PM
These unis are supposed to live for years, so short term activity doesn't imply that it will have long term benefits. Like I said in another thread, come back in 60 days and let us know how much activity you are seeing and whether people feel like its a grind at that point or are they really still excited about these improvements.

It's like a business that is in distress, where all the sales activity comes at the end of the quarter. As the quarter nears the end, execs realize they aren't going to hit the sales target, so they trigger incentives, discounts, etc, to close the quarter and hit the sales targets. There's a rush of activity, they get things done....but then the cycle repeats next quarter. It's a sign that the business is going under. But if you only look at the rush of activity that happens the last few weeks of the quarter and nothing else, you'd think the business was "healthy". It's the same thing here. BFG knows that they can stimulate activity with these changes. It makes sense. It's like marking everything down to 80% off. You'll move insane quantities of goods at that level. But you won't make profit. Same with SFC. They've marked everything down you've done up to this point, on order of magnitude of 99.9% off. Who wouldn't go on a buying binge with prices like that? Stores are full, people are partying. But then that passes....
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on August 30, 2012, 05:33:11 PM
Also the NPCs need to be oracle scannable but without the players locations from wer the attack is launched...

And the point of that would be....
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Mama on August 30, 2012, 05:37:21 PM
Quote
Also the NPCs need to be oracle scannable but without the players locations from wer the attack is launched...

So why would you bother scanning??????  :o
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Sam Carter on August 30, 2012, 06:17:45 PM
Well i think those big players crying about the changes are only afraid its going to knock them out of their hard earned spots...me being rank 20 makes it a lil harder to hold on to that spot..im all for it...i for the first time since the version started seen our alliance boards lit up with activity from this change players that have always been farmers and ship collectors wer nailing those green SOBs..it was absolutely amazing how much of an impact it has made..

i think there needs to be a special leader boards section for NPC DSP..i have 50m of REAL DSP and for that im proud..anyone agree?

Also the NPCs need to be oracle scannable but without the players locations from wer the attack is launched...

Another player that has no idea...

The top players will just pull away from the rest of the leaderboard. making the difference even bigger. I have been hitting them for less then 24 hours, and have made close too 10billion resources, and about 20 million DSP. So you could say the last 2 years of playing, is not just forgotten about. 
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on August 30, 2012, 07:18:18 PM
Well i think those big players crying about the changes are only afraid its going to knock them out of their hard earned spots

Quite the opposite. Almost all the high ranked players I've seen are against these NPCs, including myself in Uni2, and we're making out like bandits. The ones I'd be suspicious of are the high ranked players that are in favour of them. Those against are freely admitting that they're raking in DSP and OCH hand over fist and that that is extremely bad for the Uni.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Chekkin on August 30, 2012, 09:22:27 PM
What gurgeh said. Top players who can hit the NPCs are making huge profits. Those who can't though because of high level mines are getting boned.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Jacq on August 30, 2012, 09:25:33 PM
I was reminded yesterday that one of the basic principles of this game is balance.      You have to build mines and build fleet to be successful at more than one aspect of the game.      If you chose to sacrifice one for the other then that's what happens.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on August 30, 2012, 09:48:59 PM
I was reminded yesterday that one of the basic principles of this game is balance.      You have to build mines and build fleet to be successful at more than one aspect of the game.      If you chose to sacrifice one for the other then that's what happens.
Soooo how exactly is this balanced? Where the more of your RSP is fleet the more successful you will be at the game. It's been said over and over, and is elementarily understood by most that mines of any level are detrimental, because if you have even proportions of mines and fleet, "your NPC" will be too big for you to hit. But if your RSP is mostly fleet and little else, you will be able to hit "your NPC" easily and make massive profit.

I see no benefit to having balance here.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on August 30, 2012, 10:35:14 PM
What gurgeh said. Top players who can hit the NPCs are making huge profits. Those who can't though because of high level mines are getting boned.

LOL! Well, only if they've got tiny or non-existent combat fleets. My Uni2 fleet is about 1/10 the size of most my rank, but it's still more than enough for a gate ninja on a top 100 player as that's what I built it for. It's emphatically *not* enough to hit most of the NPCs in my RSP tier, as I don't have an even balance between ships and mines. I hadn't reached that point yet and now I never will. I really don't care about not being able to hit those huge NPCs, it's not sour grapes about others success in the slightest, it's about changing a game beyond all recognition with no notice or consultation whatsoever, and about the effects of those changes in the very short-term. There won't be a long-term to worry about.

I was reminded yesterday that one of the basic principles of this game is balance.      You have to build mines and build fleet to be successful at more than one aspect of the game.      If you chose to sacrifice one for the other then that's what happens.

That's true, balance is certainly important. But isn't it equally important that if a player chooses a strategy, any mainstream strategy, then follows through with that strategy over a period of YEARS, then they should have a reasonable expectation that the ground rules of the Uni won't be ripped out from under them? I'm heavy on mines in Uni2 as I was building an account specifically for the end game there. I've no real interest in hunting or attacking active players any more, but I had the objective of getting to #1 at some point in at least one category in at least one Uni, and I had a reasonable chance of that.

New NPCs are hugely in favour of fleeters at the expense of everyone else. That's not balanced. Eventually, now, everyone will become a fleeter anyway, they've got no other valid option to take, but those fleeters that saw the initial introduction of NPCs are the ones that really run away with the goodies. Perfect place at the perfect time. No offence to you, Jacq, you're as entitled to your point of view as much as anyone else is, but you're one of the players seeing the most benefit.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: new starr federation on August 30, 2012, 11:24:40 PM
>>So why would you bother scanning???<<

i will tell ya Mama..because if i was going to then i wouldnt waste my time also it might not show who or where from.. but it still leaves a pretty good idea of who it is giving opportunity to lock on to their return.. make for more excitement and it would allow us or smaller guys to steal others debris..
:)

An nothing towards ya Sue..We go back to original and I like and Admire What a b@ss@ss chick you are at SFC but we all know ur kinda mad it jus made ur AWESOME ACCOUNT worth a lil less in value..lol Im sorry for that too..

but im for the new changes..

everyone knows i live on there and i havent seen this much activity since it began which to me is a GREAT thing..

im still going to push for Matt to change and separate the DSP on the leader boards to differentiate the difference..REAL  DSP is something to be proud of and u live and active players beware.. u are still on my menu..jus waiting for u to get sloppy or drop ur guard..

 
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on August 30, 2012, 11:46:16 PM
>>So why would you bother scanning???<<

i will tell ya Mama..because if i was going to then i wouldnt waste my time also it might not show who or where from.. but it still leaves a pretty good idea of who it is giving opportunity to lock on to their return.. make for more excitement and it would allow us or smaller guys to steal others debris..
:)



How would you lock their return if you can't see where they are coming from?
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: new starr federation on August 30, 2012, 11:56:30 PM
if ya know ur areas.. then it wouldnt be hard to launch on the persons moon right? its a gamble thats what would make it fun and challenging Krown :)
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Redfrog on August 31, 2012, 12:59:39 AM
It seems to me that this NPC thing is going to impact those who are inactive the most.   I know a lot of people like to play like that.   I'm enjoying being able to find targets to attack.   It beats endless, waiting and probing.   BFG is at least increasing activity.   I like the idea of 2 sets of dsp, npc/ non npc.   BFG should really tune the NPC's.  Ideally weak players who are active should be able to increase the most.   BFG has all the math, they just need to run the numbers and tune it.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on August 31, 2012, 01:53:01 AM
If you are going to separate out NPC-DSP, then why count it at all? It's not a badge of honor that a person is the biggest NPC crusher of all time. If I were playing in a uni that kept track of NPC kill points, I'd be embarrassed. In fact, I'd really hope they wouldn't show the stat at all. It is ALMOST akin to how I would feel about having my money spent show up as a stat to others.

I totally agree it shouldn't be counted in with regular DSP...just that I also wouldn't want people to see it as a separate stat. The real answer is don't award NPC DSP at all.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on August 31, 2012, 04:28:29 AM
if ya know ur areas.. then it wouldnt be hard to launch on the persons moon right? its a gamble thats what would make it fun and challenging Krown :)

I don't know if this comment/suggestion is serious or not. Honestly.

(facepalm)
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Qwerty on August 31, 2012, 04:56:59 AM
if ya know ur areas.. then it wouldnt be hard to launch on the persons moon right? its a gamble thats what would make it fun and challenging Krown :)
It's hard but it is possible... If you know where their fleet is and you know the types of NPCs hittable for them to make a huge profit
Then basically all you need to do is watch those NPCs for debris or activity then calc what the return time might be, there's lots of guesswork and luck involved but I've done it once xD it's basically like locking a harvest frs
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on August 31, 2012, 05:10:40 AM
Harvest lock is completely different. You are dealing with one speed of one ship generally coming from the closest planet/moon since harvesters are so slow.

I can easily defeat a "semi-oracleable lock" by splitting fleet from different planet locations. According to new starr, you would see my fleet but don't know which planets they are coming from.

Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: new starr federation on August 31, 2012, 06:05:02 AM
the moral of the story is to mainly see if its under attack..they should give a view of the attacking ships and time but no launch origin..

id be tryin blind oracle locks like crazy..i love locking on to ppl and seeing them squirm..begging pleading to recall..lol hahaha its to make a new variable in the game..
all ya guys at BFG gotta do is try it out..no harm right?

And please hurry and make separate DSP on the leader boards..

and btw thanks for finally taking my advise from 2yrs ago and adding reduced gate cool downs with each lvl added..its nice..all though it sucks the gate cant be used while under construction..idk what ur reasoning was for that..but i think most would agree it sucks...lol
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Sam Carter on August 31, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
They would not make seperate DSP in Nova, so they will not here. Live with it, your hard earned DSP over the last 2 years will be useless.

I'm looking to doubling mine in a week...
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: BigDog Returns on August 31, 2012, 09:55:35 AM
I was reminded yesterday that one of the basic principles of this game is balance.      You have to build mines and build fleet to be successful at more than one aspect of the game.      If you chose to sacrifice one for the other then that's what happens.

lol mines are now useless jaq

the only good thing that could happen is people will have fleets that they cant save

Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Despicableme on August 31, 2012, 10:16:23 AM
What no one wants to admit is... Do you see the amount of people who are playing again!!! It has added excitement back to this game. Everyone seems to be coming out of the woodwork and playing again to get in on this. Like it was said above.. some people launch from planets or heph so O'lock possible, some people just keep going and going and can't possibly hold the amount they are getting.. bonus res for whoever hits them. Come on people we needed a change, we have asked for change and now that it is here... people are still bitching about it. Have fun and enjoy it!!
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Boris Alden on September 01, 2012, 01:43:13 AM
So you see a DF and you are going to launch on a fleet that may have caused it....

Your plan falls foul to not knowing what was sent and where the rest of a persons fleet may be.

However if you are right you may get some DSP or lose your whole fleet.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krysst on September 02, 2012, 11:04:21 PM
I dont mind NPCs...I must agree that the rez is ridiculous in them and I dont like the fact that they award FULL DSP (dont mind the awarding of dsp but should be at a much reduced level).  I might not have been #1 or even top 10 in DSP but I was right there...somewhere around #25 or something...and worked hard to accomplish that... It does suck to see people who are not hunters fly past you now in DSP but hey...thats the way it is...we just gotta hit them too I guess...

My playtime had been dramatically reduced of late and loggin in 2 hours a day and able to hit something is pretty cool :) human or not!
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on September 02, 2012, 11:46:01 PM
Bear in mind that this time next week you won't be able to hit anything at all as all the NPCs in your RSP tier will be too big as they'll be based on players that are hitting NPCs 8+ hours a day.

It's a grind. If you fall too far behind the average daily NPC take in your RSP tier, you're SOL until you drop down to the next RSP tier of NPCs. And if you're still hitting less than the average, you'll keep dropping down. Eventually, newbies playing more than 2 hours a day will be shooting past you in RSP and DSP, but the Uni is likely to be empty long before then.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Boris Alden on September 04, 2012, 09:47:42 PM
Morat NPC's in my prive range take about 4k athena and lots more each run.  But it's just quite mad really ...
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on September 04, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
That's what Morat has been saying. As long as you keep hitting them, you grow with them, that makes them grow, and you grow even more next time. Exponential.

You stop, then they outgrow you.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ken Wagner on September 05, 2012, 04:49:57 AM
in my opinion, hitting NPC's is kinda like masturbation...... :P

True and everyone does it. Given the co-ordinated whine-fest from AA and Andy Nards' re-registering a new account again, it seems they view the new NPC silliness as Hamster poison, a threat to their dominance. I would agree it would make things quite interesting though, if NPCs could be oracled and attacking/returning fleets could be o-locked and ninja'd. Perhaps add the ability to GD an NPC....
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on September 05, 2012, 04:58:13 AM
It seems to me that one common suggestion about how to fix NPCs is to essentially make them a battleground for PvP play. Either through oracles or through GD. If that's how to fix it, then how about removing the middle man entirely and just get back to players battling other players directly?

I suppose if getting rid of them, or neutering them back to where they used to be is completely out of the question for BFG, then any feature that breaks the cycle of NPC farmville, no matter how poor a feature, is still better than nothing at all. I don't think it's particularly balanced to allow oracles and GD, but hell, anything's better than nothing. The imbalance I'm referring to is the fact that the big players will still farm the big NPCs and make massive profit, but the smaller NPCs will become honey pots for the big players. If the goal is to allow NPCs to be feed for small and mid players (as BFG says) then this will largely prevent that because there will always be a bigger player sitting and watching.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on September 05, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
Iv got 17billion Crystal!!! anyone got any spare Hydro they wanna trade HAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ali Baba on September 05, 2012, 09:31:37 AM
Or do i have to make a bucket load of Probes HAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on September 05, 2012, 02:06:32 PM
Given the co-ordinated whine-fest from AA and Andy Nards' re-registering a new account again, it seems they view the new NPC silliness as Hamster poison, a threat to their dominance.

Without trying to sound like a dick Ken (because we were once in the same alliance, and I tried to reverse a player who locked you when you launched from your PLANET instead of MOON), the only reason you are saying this is because without these new NPCs, you would remain in your natural position on the leaderboard. Where that is, I'll let you figure it out.

Instead of masturbating with a lifeless NPC, you should try having sex with a REAL person.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on September 05, 2012, 02:20:09 PM
Hey!!! No-one told me that nookie was a viable alternative to SFC.   :o
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ken Wagner on September 05, 2012, 02:51:26 PM
Krown, What is my "natural" position on the leaderboard? I've only gained 10 places on the leader board (#103 before NPC, #93 now) here from NPCs. The point about my comment regarding the NPC complaints is this: SO many people are now active, there shouldn't any problem finding live players to hunt. If anything, there may be too many to catch. Consider these veal or Foi Gras, the player fleets are that much more plump for the taking. Adapt and hunt. I don't think your comment made you sound like a dick, just an "Arrogant Ass" (that's an A.A. reference, FYI).
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: KesserIII on September 05, 2012, 02:58:18 PM
i think he was implying that you and pretty much the rest of your alliance are a bunch of turtles ken.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: KesserIII on September 05, 2012, 02:58:48 PM
actually he was probably implying you were and i just added the part about your alliance on my own
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: SOLDIER of FORTUNE on September 05, 2012, 03:01:14 PM
I think we should be able to scan NPC's... and those realy big should be lowered in DSP's reward......
Also that few million DSP worth NPC's should be offered like some weekend special offer or something...My opinion,nothing else !
NPC surely don't need to be worth 2-3 million DSP's.Long time ago DSP meant something...now it's worthless
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on September 05, 2012, 03:05:22 PM
Krown, What is my "natural" position on the leaderboard? I've only gained 10 places on the leader board (#103 before NPC, #93 now) here from NPCs. The point about my comment regarding the NPC complaints is this: SO many people are now active, there shouldn't any problem finding live players to hunt. If anything, there may be too many to catch. Consider these veal or Foi Gras, the player fleets are that much more plump for the taking. Adapt and hunt. I don't think your comment made you sound like a dick, just an "Arrogant Ass" (that's an A.A. reference, FYI).

Fair enough. Please enlighten me on how you propose to kill a live target that launched on an NPC from their moon?

Also, would you even bother trying to kill any live players when NPCs that offer ZERO risk yield same (if not more) DSP and as much as 10 times the plunder?

Yes, it is me being arrogant presenting FACTS to my argument rather than supporting it blindly with insults and claims of more people are playing. How do you know this? I could easily say that judging from various threads on the boards, disapproval of these new NPCs outweigh support 2-1.

You only gained 10 rankings I a week? How fast would you have normally gained that much in rank?
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ken Wagner on September 05, 2012, 03:40:00 PM
Actually before the NPC stuff I was gaining about 2-4 places per week. As for "how do you kill a player launching from their moon..." that's why I agree that oracle scans should be allowed on NPCs to introduce risk vs reward. This game was dying before, with so many in v-mode it was near impossible to score a hit. I am not saying this NPC thing is perfect, but you can't say that it hasn't sparked a level of interest. Player fleets will soon eclipse the size of NPC fleets making them nice juicy targets. I think BFG will eventually modify the NPC thing in one way or another and the whole thing will become a footnote. As to a 2-1 disapproval of the new NPCs, "based on various threads", how many postings are from players in the top 100? There are 1,000+ other players in the game who do not post in the boards and we do not know their opinion. Your "FACTS" may not be as reliable as you want them to be.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on September 05, 2012, 03:43:54 PM
The counter point is this, and no one ever bothers to try to refute it, and I'd love to see someone try.

1) The runaway inflation that NPCs create means if you are primarily a player hunter, you have to now also do boring NPC farming to keep up, because plump or not, within a week, they will be so plump if they fall on you they will squash you. Having tons of live players doesn't help you a bit if they are all growing much faster than you. The math is in many of these posts for you or anyone else to attempt to refute.

Anyway the latest meme appears to insinuate people aren't able to adapt. Let's connect the dots ok? 1a) If you can hunt live players, you certainly can "hunt" NPCs. It's the same, except you don't have to slow probe or worry about ninjas or them coming online. The skills are a subset, not a superset. 1b) This is not fun. It's not a matter of challenge, its a matter of not being fun. 1c) If they liked playing games like this, they would already be playing Farmville. 1d) We take it as a sign since they aren't already playing farmville games, maybe they don't enjoy those games. 1e) adapting means playing a game that is no fun anymore. 1f) Games are supposed to be fun, not un-fun. 1g) complain, that the game that you made that used to be fun isn't fun anymore. 1h) no response means the final alternative becomes inevitable, quit.

Not because of lack of ability to adapt, but lack of desire to adapt to something that isn't fun.

2) About how many people are active. They are active playing a PvE game which in the old days they signed up for a PvP game. How long do you think the activity will last? We know from Nova that the activity quickly turns into a grind. In about a month those that were not very active will either have dropped back into activity, or be complaining about how boring and how much of a grind the game has become to try and keep up with those that have limitless time to spend raping NPCs.

I understand it is hard to see this point, if you haven't seen this happen before. It's like when a company focuses on short term revenue instead of long term profits. It's not a sign of health, it's actually a sign of sickness. In a few months it will actually be worse than what you were complaining about before the NPCs were changed.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on September 05, 2012, 03:50:06 PM
Player fleets will soon eclipse the size of NPC fleets making them nice juicy targets.
I would kindly suggest you review the details of the new NPC before forming an opinion based on certain assumptions. This is one of those that is in fact false. If you read Matt's post, they scale with players. So now, as player fleets get bigger, so do the NPC fleets. Thus it's inflating the growth on exponential scales. That's why if you want to hunt live players, you must likewise engage in hunting NPCs just to keep up.

Think of it like this. What happened to hunters in uni2 that didn't keep up with mining on some level? Meaning, hunters who had mines in the teens compared to those they hunt being in the high 20s and 30s? They became irrelevant because they didn't have enough fleet to keep up. To hunt you have to have mines as least somewhere close to those you are hunting, if you are playing for the long term. The same is true here, but even more true than the mining example. If you want to hunt, you have to grind first.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on September 05, 2012, 03:55:22 PM
There are 1,000+ other players in the game who do not post in the boards and we do not know their opinion. Your "FACTS" may not be as reliable as you want them to be.
I don't know a single person in my old Nova alliance that thinks these things are great.

It's true we don't know what everyone thinks, but it's also true that this is a sample of the larger population, and unless there is something that makes us as posters very different from those who don't, we are a sample of the population, and our opinions are a reflection of the greater population. Maybe there is a +/- figure, but it can't be too far off. The stronger point however, is about what this will do to the game longer term, rather than are people having fun now. I would concede the point about having fun for the moment, and return to the fact that we saw what this fun looks like a couple months down the road in the form of Nova. It's not the same fun after doing it for a couple months.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: krown on September 05, 2012, 04:31:45 PM
Actually before the NPC stuff I was gaining about 2-4 places per week.

I that is true, you don't think that gaining rank 4-5x your normal rate isn't right?

Of course not! You're gaining rank and getting lots of resources. All is good!

If you think I'm being a baby because I'm afraid of lower levels catching up to me so I rage quit, you're so wrong. In the week that NPCs came out, I jumped 7 ranks, had my heph with 13 BILLION OCH, about 4-5 BILLION resources spread over 9 planets. I had 7 out of 9 shipyards running 24 hours a day. I was hitting with my 900+ zeese so I was making pure profit on most of my hits.

The truth of the matter is I was climbing the ranks faster than you. You were making 10x your normal daily, while I was making 100x.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

THOSE are the facts.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Ken Wagner on September 05, 2012, 07:46:11 PM
 I won't ignore player targets just because NPCs are like shooting "immobile paper targets." I will hit any live player I can catch and hit profitably. I believe that the NPC creation will be modified in some way to lessen their impact. We all know BFG is a "change stuff now and see what happens later" thought process. I think those who bail out will regret it later should BFG change things closer to what was, and there are the ex-players either starting over or submitting tickets to get their accounts restored. I thank you all for the stimulating discussion and will now go back to ignoring the boards.
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on September 06, 2012, 01:06:48 AM
(http://innoconnects.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/PDHeadInSand.gif)
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Big S on September 06, 2012, 01:30:17 AM
Wrong picture Morat. That is Matt H and BFG. This is the picture for the players:

(http://thekennesawwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/MoneyTree2-230x300.jpg)
Title: Re: Significant changes have been made to NPCs, including that they now will create
Post by: Morat on September 06, 2012, 02:09:00 AM
Point. I didn't think of that coz I always picture BFG as

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iuT7oMSzlHI/T-F9yiIA5dI/AAAAAAAAEcE/CzP4MQJew_c/s1600/mushroom+bullshit.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom_management (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom_management)
(substitute 'players' for 'staff')