Starfleet Commander Forum

Starfleet Commander => Original Universe => Topic started by: the red emperor on April 10, 2013, 12:58:35 AM

Title: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on April 10, 2013, 12:58:35 AM
 For a change I would like to open up the topic to bragging about a heavily invested planet. I have seen shipyard 18, a foundry at 10. Who claims the highest research lab? Highest mines? Maybe you feel proud about a combination of infrastructure and defense? How many fields have been used up for useful buildings?

I understand people are always going to be a buzz kill and say RSP is overrated because of NPC farmville, but I do not care. Original universe has been around for what 3-4 years now, and I bet there are some intense planets out there.

I think it would be a nice read.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Kaork on April 10, 2013, 01:00:48 AM
I like this, and even I'm no where in the running for any of it, Thank you.  It will be interesting. 
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on April 10, 2013, 02:03:25 AM
30/27/29 lab 16 ship 13 cap 13 foundry 7 227 building slots used
highest oracle 8 highest warp gate 1
highest resoure den 7
9,243 hydrogen an hour
This is my most rounded planet on my account :)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Grabby Raccoon on April 10, 2013, 08:35:03 AM
31/28/30
Cap 12
Shipyard 15
Lab 15
Silo 8
Foundry 8
10/10/15 Resource storage (not den)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: JonathanY on April 10, 2013, 03:02:01 PM
33/30/30 on four planets. 
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: meeeeeee on April 11, 2013, 04:58:32 PM
Out of curiosity why build the Den level 7?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Scott Antichow on April 12, 2013, 01:34:50 AM
Remember way back when 5000 hydro for an oracle scan was an issue? lol Now thats the last thing on anyones mind. lol
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on April 12, 2013, 02:17:33 AM
Out of curiosity why build the Den level 7?

lol i might have taken me 1 second to build it. i was just writing down random facts for the building pages, and that appeared to be the only one built that high
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on April 12, 2013, 02:19:14 AM
33/30/30 on four planets. 

sweet mines, any super cold planets that produce a lot of hydrogen? i just wasted a temporary planet that was -88 degrees :(

scott,
i think we have been spoiled. even capitol ships that take less than 50 seconds to build, I get impatient
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on April 13, 2013, 11:53:17 PM
A couple of SY18/F10 combinations.  Zeus build time of 7 minutes, 59 seconds, Heph build time of 35 minutes, 31 seconds, Proms build time of around 5.8 seconds.

I'm thinking about upping the F10's to F11's.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: JonathanY on April 14, 2013, 08:08:25 AM
I have one of those planets at -91.  Even with the planet being powered by a level 19 NPP (Energy tech 17), the level 30 still produces 9428 (10591 before NPP) an hour. 
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on April 14, 2013, 05:07:56 PM
A couple of SY18/F10 combinations.  Zeus build time of 7 minutes, 59 seconds, Heph build time of 35 minutes, 31 seconds, Proms build time of around 5.8 seconds.

I'm thinking about upping the F10's to F11's.

wow! definitely fits the description for your rank.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on April 21, 2013, 10:12:07 PM
I've upped one of the F10's to an F11, the other F10 - F11 upgrade is in progress.  So, Zeus build time is 3 minutes 59 seconds, Heph build time is 17 minutes 45 seconds, Proms build time is a bit under 2.9 seconds.

The main purpose of these builds is to reduce the chance that I get into a situation where I consistently build up res faster than I can turn it into ships.  Even with the SY18/F10's running 18 hours a day, I was approaching that condition.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: commander1970jim on April 24, 2013, 07:59:07 AM
Hydro storage lvl 17. nice for trades
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: llaubacher on April 24, 2013, 06:14:24 PM
Mines: 0/0//47, Storage: 10/10/36, SY24, F25, RL33
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: gmel on June 19, 2013, 05:11:31 PM
Why SY18?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Vastet on June 19, 2013, 05:21:40 PM
Extra build droid. You get 1 droid per 3 levels. Levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, etc; each allow an extra droid. Makes a pretty big difference. It's much more cost effective to go from SY 15 to 18 than F 10 to F 11, as an example.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on June 22, 2013, 02:33:30 PM
Right now I'm working on the first of two F13s.  I'll have a couple of SY18/F13 combos, with plans to take those to SY21/F13.  Prom build time will be around 0.6 seconds.

There is method in this madness!  I want to get to the point where I can do all my rebuilds during a Galaxy scanning session.  This will enable me to adopt the following approach to playing SFC:

Do scans and rebuilds;
Launch attacks and FRS everything else;
Go do something else in life;
Ships return;

Repeat cycle!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Zarchne on June 22, 2013, 04:48:48 PM
Even ignoring droids, the math is that, every time you build a level of Foundry, it doubles the value of building the next level of Shipyard.  Since Shipyard doubles in cost every level, the result is that --at some point-- it makes sense (cost/value) to build one level of Shipyard each time you build a level of Foundry.  I calculated that point (based on converted resources) as being when Shipyard is about seven levels ahead of Foundry, which is roughly in line with T-Wayne's plan.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on June 25, 2013, 03:12:51 PM
Have finished one of the SY21/F13 combos, can build 101 Proms per minute -- a bit less than 0.6 seconds per Prom.  I'm working on the other F13, right now.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on June 26, 2013, 01:50:10 AM
well i have done some upgrading. up to shipyard 16,foundry 8. 30/27/34. research 18.

 can someone do the math and let me know what hydrogen storage is needed to be equivalent to a heph trade capacity? i assume it is a massive investment. you guys are showing 17 and 18 for hydrogen storage.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: wesnalk on June 26, 2013, 02:20:25 AM
i know lvl 23 gives 2.4b max
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Vastet on June 26, 2013, 02:28:22 AM
This topic tells you costs and capacities, beyond anything you'll be building any time in the next 3 years minimum in this uni, for Hydro storage.

http://forum.playstarfleet.com/index.php?topic=19469.0
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Justice Umbiya on June 26, 2013, 03:42:46 AM
Thanx Vas
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Vastet on June 26, 2013, 04:53:22 AM
My pleasure. And my thanks to Matt and Zarchne for posting the details in the first place. :)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on June 26, 2013, 10:33:24 AM
Thanks for the charts.

I assume players in original universe with storage at 17 or higher have nine gated moons and don't have a slot to trade off a heph?? Investing that into infrastructure and not getting the same deal as a heph...
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Callum Roberts on June 26, 2013, 11:03:12 AM
I am only sad that laggy isn't still here :(
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: llaubacher on June 26, 2013, 11:51:57 AM
I assume players in original universe with storage at 17 or higher have nine gated moons and don't have a slot to trade off a heph?? Investing that into infrastructure and not getting the same deal as a heph...

You can have nine gated moons and deploy/trade off a heph.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Keyper on July 05, 2013, 02:13:48 PM
X4 Foundry 11's (x3 burning)
All but one Hydro Storage 17
Mostly Shipyard 18's
Mostly Capital 15's
Mostly Research lab 15's

Reseraching Warpgate 2's from tomorrow (during Holiday)

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 05, 2013, 05:30:42 PM
I do have my two SY21/F13 combos up and running, now.  Proms build time is slightly less than 0.6 seconds.  Essentially all my ships get built at those two facilities.  I have a centralized model for my civilization -- hits occur out in the hunting territories, res flows in to the centers, ships and hydro flow back out to the outpost planets.  For hydro production, I take the collected res and periodically do double-conversions using my Heph, producing hydro in gulps of 2B units at a time. Two such double-conversions a week usually are enough to keep the civ running.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Beavis Christ on August 03, 2013, 04:14:24 PM
Cap 15, SY 16, Foundry 8, working to build up foundry to 10-11. Arcnet 8 completes in 110 hrs.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 21, 2013, 09:17:05 PM
Anyone have a sense as to what the highest hydro storage level in Uni1 currently is?  I hate being limited to converting in bug gulps at Heph speed (9-hour delay!).  So, after laz and I finish our current Proms-building competition, I intend to get serious about upgrading my hydro storage.  The minimum target will be Level 21, which roughly is equivalent to a Heph.  Level 22 sounds better -- about 1.5B per conversion.  Level 23 is even better, at 2.4B or so, but it costs 8B ore and 8B crystal.  I know that I'd create millions of public works jobs on any planet where I tried to build such a thing, but I think that's a bit rich for Uni1.  If anyone has a hydro storage 23, could you comment on whether you'd do it again, or would you stop at 22?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Stem1986 on August 21, 2013, 09:42:52 PM
I am at level 22 and I am debating if I should upgrade it one more level. I do not regret having hydro storage at level 22.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on August 22, 2013, 03:04:49 AM
I am looking at level 22 as a personal cap. Not there yet though, and unlikely would I consider going farther. Of course, everyone has a different perspective of the game and what they are willing to spend in filthy lucre. Personally, I have quite often had to hire the merchant as much as 8-9 times a day to keep the wheels of commerce going, fueling my ships, building new ships that require hydro, etc. Of course my objective is to make all my planets self sufficient so as to not be constantly moving resources around. But that's just me, many players cannot spend the same amount of credits as I can, and must find methods to keep their actual credit costs to a minimum. Others feel un-oblidged to spend ANYTHING on the game and as such, must develop their infrastructure based on that. Those are just 3 philosophies of playing the game, all have their set of advantages (and disadvantages, in my case, it costs me a 12 pack of beer a week to play), and I am sure there are several other methods of acquiring the needed hydro to even play.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on September 11, 2013, 02:19:52 PM
As the targets continue to get larger, we continue to blow up more of our own ships, and thus we need to continue to increase our ship-building capabilities.

I know that a number of the largest players have built either F12's or F13's on all of their planets, to handle the ship-rebuilding load.  At least one other player (I'll let him name himself, if he wishes to do so) has at least one SY22/F14 combo.  I've recently upgraded my two SY21/F13 combos to SY21/F14s.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Zarchne on September 11, 2013, 03:00:32 PM
Seems like, rather than having a limit ahead of time on the Hydrogen Storage, you should have a limit on how many trades you're willing to do per day per planet and then build HS to meet that goal.  Even though SFCO is not growing as fast as X2 or Conquest it is still pretty much exponential (your growth rate is determined by the size of the NPCs you're hitting which is proportional to your size).
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: llaubacher on September 11, 2013, 04:11:02 PM
Since BFG is shooting themselves in a foot with those insane (IMO) NPCs, after my HS reaches lvl 22 (currently in progress), it will go to 23, it is only 16B of O&C. More hydro one can convert in one go, less credits spent.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on September 11, 2013, 04:37:54 PM
Ya, since my last post, where i indicated that level 22 on hydro storage would probably be my cap, I have since decided to upgrade two of my primary build planets to level 24 ( 23 in progress)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Vastet on September 11, 2013, 04:49:04 PM
If I remember correctly, I had a 27 in Conquest before I quit, and I wasn't the highest. I'd bet there's a few at 35+ by now.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on September 11, 2013, 04:58:18 PM
Ya, but cross-referencing from different unis really doesnt work well. I should have indicated that im in SFCO.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Vastet on September 11, 2013, 05:48:42 PM
No I figured that due to the forum, but even O will eventually get to the point where a level 30 HS would be an asset and not particularly expensive.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on September 11, 2013, 06:50:37 PM
You are right, most of the npc targets i hit net about 1-5 billion resources and sometimes much more, so a couple hits allows an upgrade, and sometimes even more, its almost ridiculous but im not going to complain. The targets are available to everyone now so its a first come, first served situation
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 24, 2013, 07:08:31 AM
Continuing the discussion of hydro storage, I've recently upgraded my two central facilities to HS 23.  These are helping (at least momentarily!) to staunch the hemorrhaging of credits spent on merchanting.  The eventual upgrading to Level 24's, as the size of NPCs continues to increase, is a foregone conclusion.

We are all hamsters running on exercise wheels, but at least using larger and larger HS facilities enables us to better manage the credits we spend on hydro.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 03, 2013, 07:03:33 PM
As a result of continuing to blow up an increasing number of ships, I've recently upgraded my two SY21/F14 combos to SY24/FY15s.  I think this holds the current SFCO record, until llaubacher or one of the other fellows above me in the list reads this note and decides to do me one better :-)

Current production rates are as follows:  485 Proms/minute, 712 Ares/minute, and Zeus build time between 10 and 11 seconds (SFC says 10 seconds for a Zeus build).  I have 9 Basic Androids in each shipyard, to give a 36% performance boost.  I don't use the Commander that provides an additional 25% build time reduction.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on November 03, 2013, 11:34:13 PM
Nice production rates, T-Wayne. Much better than mine but i have been in a resource drought lately so doesnt matter if it takes me a while longer to build ships. I have no current plans to extend my facilities beyond sy22/f14 for now.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 16, 2014, 08:51:21 PM
A lot has changed since November, when we last were talking about things like Foundry 15s.  That seems so long ago...

I know of at least one very large player who has at least F17s on all of his planets.  I know that he has at least one F18, as well.

F16's are becoming very common fare for the top-ranked players. 

My top combos are a couple of SY24/F18s. 

In the way of hydro storage facilities -- Level 25 and 26 facilities are becoming pretty common, and most of the larger players "goose" their production by using a Logistics Specialist to give +2 on the storage unit levels.  A Level 26 hydro storage, with Logistics Specialist, enables you to create over 25B hydro per conversion.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: gypsy88 on March 18, 2014, 10:57:42 PM
All warp gates are lvl 4
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on March 20, 2014, 11:51:48 PM
outstanding t-wayne.  cant even imagine how quickly those ships are producing for you. i know it might be on the forum already, but what level does hydrogen storage have larger storage than the heph? 

gypsy, that is pretty sweet set up.  oracle is mostly a thing of the past.  I wish i would've invested like you did instead of large oracle coverage. 
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: commander abаб on March 21, 2014, 12:07:24 AM
outstanding t-wayne.  cant even imagine how quickly those ships are producing for you. i know it might be on the forum already, but what level does hydrogen storage have larger storage than the heph?  level 22

gypsy, that is pretty sweet set up.  oracle is mostly a thing of the past.  I wish i would've invested like you did instead of large oracle coverage.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 21, 2014, 02:22:54 AM
With respect to ship-building rate -- for the SY24/F18 combos, they produce 3879 Proms/minute, or 232,740 Proms/hour.  They also produce 48 Zeus/minute.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Fenton, Death Sheep on March 25, 2014, 01:17:17 AM
I like my shipyard 18/ foundry 16 on all my hunting planets. I will probably be going to foundry 17s over the next month or so.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on March 25, 2014, 01:43:34 AM
Ya, would like my foundries increased too, but unfortunately the 16s are all constantly busy replacing ships lost to the new format NPCs, lol. Hopefully, i can bump them all up to 17s one by one over the next couple weeks. I would also surely love at least one 18, just because.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 03, 2014, 03:30:49 PM
Our posts back in March now seem so quaint :-)  A lot of evolution has occurred during the past 3 months!

Among the top players, Foundry 20's are the norm, I know of one player who has multiple F21s, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that one or two players have a few F22s purring along.

With respect to hydro -- Hydro Storage 29s plus a Logistics Specialist, providing for Merching 106B hydro at a time -- is common practice among the largest players.  Again, I would be shocked if at least one of the largest guys hasn't gone beyond this, to at least Hydro Storage 30s.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 03, 2014, 05:34:10 PM
One other bit of evolution -- the rise of significant Zeus fleets in SFCO.  At least 9 of the Top 17 players in SFCO, ranked by RSPs, use Z-fleets on a regular basis to attack NPCs.  Multiple players hunt NPCs exclusively, or near-exclusively, using Z's.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: mophius on July 03, 2014, 09:40:08 PM
Its good to know what to aspire to. Makes my F12 look pitiful but its what I am comfortable with at the moment. Need to up my labs though as I do recall they are only at 15's and maybe an 18. You guys probably know better than me. lol
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: bob uzzell on July 04, 2014, 12:45:46 AM
3 foundrys at 14,
shipyards at 19
hydro storage at 23
labs at 23
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 04, 2014, 02:39:01 AM
Hi, mophius, my rule of thumb is to increase the Foundries whenever I get to where I can't stop the res from piling up on me.  If you are in a stable res situation with your F12s, then you have no worries.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 04, 2014, 02:48:55 AM
Hi, Bob,
Good to hear from you! I suspect you love your HS 23s!  I'm finding that I need to upgrade the HS's about once a month.  What is your experience?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: ♰ArchAngel♰ on July 04, 2014, 12:56:35 PM
Geez I gotta get my butt in gear and get to work.  :o

Been so busy trying to up my fleet, hydro storage, foundries, and labs all at the same time. It's like I rotate my attention from one to the other. It's makes your head spin.  ;)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: occuli imperator on July 04, 2014, 02:38:11 PM
you are so B.A.D... :P
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: bob uzzell on July 04, 2014, 04:52:30 PM
Hi, Bob,
Good to hear from you! I suspect you love your HS 23s!  I'm finding that I need to upgrade the HS's about once a month.  What is your experience?

i upgrade as i find i'm running out of things....zags, proms ect.  also much better to buy merchant once then it is three times for the same amount of hydro.

i still curse you t-wayne for that advice you gave me,,,,,,,,my hydro bill , hench , my credit bill has gone up a bit. ;D

looking at raising the four main planets to level 24 shortly
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 06, 2014, 08:50:37 AM
Bob,

If you were in a lonely part of the universe, I'd switch that advice and say "hunt Colonies with Z's".  There are some fairly high-ranked players who have shifted totally, or almost totally, to being Z-hunters.  Myself, I try to go after a Z-target every day (that's about the best you can do with a Z-fleet -- 1 target a day!).

However, given that you AREN'T in a lonely part of the universe, and you have to deal with competition, my advice to you remains the same as when I first gave it to you :-)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 13, 2014, 02:49:29 PM
A month has gone by -- things change amazingly quickly.  Here is what I know about what the higher-ranked players in the game are playing with, these days.

First -- among the Top 5 players, all of us, other than llaubacher, are spawning targets that are best taken either using Z-fleets or massive Proms/Ares fleets (by massive, I mean targets that require 900M - 1400M Proms to take).  Losses against these targets can be well over 10M Proms.  Llaubacher, top dog that he is, spawns targets that are largely fodder ships and fodder defenses.  He can take these with huge Hades/Ares fleets -- and he commonly uses this combo, with minimal losses.  All the rest of the Top 5 have at least one planet within range of a llaubacher world.  We try to snipe his targets when the opportunity to do so presents itself.  Because most of our targets still are the "fortress" type, rather than the "bunny" (fodder) type, we can't optimize our fleets for max effectiveness against bunnies.  So, we do what we can, with Proms, Ares, and moderately-large Hades fleets.

Because of our large losses to be rebuilt and/or huge resource intakes for new builds, we need very efficient Shipyard/Foundry combos.  I think that each of the Top 5 players has at least F21s.  Some of the Top 5 go higher than that.

Pushing around our large fleets causes hydro to be an issue.  To address this, we require fairly high-level hydro storage units for merchanting hydro.  Typical values are HS 30+. 

Research labs -- many players have been in the game long enough to have projects that take MANY months (4+) to complete.  To try to cut the time down, research labs of Level 30+ are becoming increasingly common.

What I find is that, due to the continuing growth of the NPCs, fleet sizes needed to take the larger targets are growing at around 75+ percent per month.  This forces those of us at the top to perform (more a less) a Foundry level upgrade, and a hydro storage upgrade, each month.  The HS upgrades are particularly important, because without them our merchanting costs would grow at about 75% per month, and that isn't sustainable.

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: napl on August 13, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
I'd love to see the probe report for one of the "fortress" type large uni1 spawns.  Please post one if you can.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: WarOgre on August 14, 2014, 12:44:04 AM
This one was a spawn of the Bruce Mays currently ranked #2 over all and in RSP.


o: War Ogre
Date: 2014-08-09 03:16:40 UTC
Encounter Large Floating Colony ‎[15:150:7e] has:
RESOURCES:
* ore: 484,363,795
* crystal: 1,784,953,291
* hydrogen: 1,055,351,635
================================
Total plunder: 1,662,334,360 (13299 carm / 66494 herc / 332467 atlas)
DSP: 7,551,795,263 (207671692 Dios / 830686765 Zags)

URCATH'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 530,492,518
* Atlas Class Cargo: 65,865,628
* Apollo Class Fighter: 25,459,741
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 54,359,832
* Hercules Class Cargo: 14,580,411
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 149,949,202
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 26,425,885
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 29,953,353
* Athena Class Battleship: 2,455,562
* Ares Class Bomber: 1,845,643
* Hades Class Battleship: 3,177,872
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 46,712,951
* Zeus Class: 88,384

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 1,540,073,924
* Laser Cannon: 995,633,294
* Pulse Cannon: 134,188,376
* Particle Cannon: 179,697,315
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 32,876,438
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 18,639,748

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 19
* Weapons Tech: 19
* Shield Tech: 19

The chance of your probes being intercepted is 100%
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Commander Kangar on August 14, 2014, 12:58:28 AM
What are you suggesting TW, that we quite building ships when we reach a certain level? Or that we quit playing at that level??
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Zarchne on August 14, 2014, 06:54:43 AM
What are you suggesting TW

He's not suggesting any sort of action.  He's just describing and analyzing the situation.  Just saying where things are at.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Decide on August 14, 2014, 12:43:18 PM
thanks for the head up admiral T, always wanted to know where this is going to. Well, if this game continous, BFG is making a lot of money with us  :P
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Commander Kangar on August 14, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
He's not suggesting any sort of action.  He's just describing and analyzing the situation.  Just saying where things are at.

I got that, but he says that it's not sustainable, and I agree. So when we reach that point how do we adjust our gameplay? Or do we just hang it up at that point? 
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Zarchne on August 14, 2014, 03:54:00 PM
he says that it's not sustainable

No, he said without upgrading HS, hydro costs would become unsustainable.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Commander Kangar on August 14, 2014, 06:14:29 PM
Ahhh, thanks, I did read that wrong. But to me it still seems unsustainable. The HS cost double with each upgrade, but the storage space does not. At some point it doesn't seem worth the cost. This also seems true with the techs.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: napl on August 14, 2014, 06:28:20 PM
Thanks WarOgre.  That's about the size NPC I look to hit in uni2 (currently ranked #7).  I will say, I think you all need to re-evaluate your ship ratios.  I can hit that same NPC (for a bit less profit) for just over a third of the hydro cost of proms only.  That doesn't include using zeus.

I won't even tell you what the NPC look like for the top 2 & 3 players, I don't think anyone hits those.  Our #1 player generates his own ludicrous spawns 5+Trillion DSP bunnies that destroy any semblance of a fast fleet.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: CreoleLakerFan on August 14, 2014, 06:35:44 PM
Thanks WarOgre.  That's about the size NPC I look to hit in uni2 (currently ranked #7).  I will say, I think you all need to re-evaluate your ship ratios.  I can hit that same NPC (for a bit less profit) for just over a third of the hydro cost of proms only.  That doesn't include using zeus.

I won't even tell you what the NPC look like for the top 2 & 3 players, I don't think anyone hits those.  Our #1 player generates his own ludicrous spawns 5+Trillion DSP bunnies that destroy any semblance of a fast fleet.

Seconded ... and I know another (semi-retired) player in UNI2 who would corroborate this if he'd login.  Cap heavy fleets are the problem.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: mophius on August 14, 2014, 07:03:54 PM
I'm in between all you guys in G1 Uni2 and have seen some of those big bunnies. I could send my z-fleet multiple times which don't get touched by the fodder. I do like it when one of those is in my system as I could send on them a few times a day.
Very profitable.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: kru on August 14, 2014, 07:26:50 PM
No, he said without upgrading HS, hydro costs would become unsustainable.

i will certianly agree with the above quote....

I got that, but he says that it's not sustainable, and I agree. So when we reach that point how do we adjust our gameplay? Or do we just hang it up at that point?

As stated, and as is well known, the problems some are now facing in other uni's i have faced (along with others) for several months in Conquest..

There, i am ranked #1 and this is the difference in RSP between #1 & #2

1    Supreme Conqueror Bagpuss‎    D₴F    7,765,348,740,503,288,832
2    Emperor N_G‎    Spacey            4,166,054,063,832,094,208

This causes for me to create my own super insane NPCs lol....and of course, fast fleet, or most of the time, any other ships but thans/zeus/athena yield a return which is highly unprofitable..

Right now, my HS with the logistics commander allows a trade for 141Q hydro per trade.  In unis such SFCO,UNI2,NOVA aiming for at least 1/5 of that will allow for a greater profit.  However, with more hydro comes more ships, more defences and as you'd expect more attacks...so the return becomes less and less profitable.

The only way for you sustian playing your game whilst growing at an expenential rate is to upgrade you hydro stores and cash out...

Obviously, the downside to hydro stores is that they take forever to build in the slower unis, bump your RSP massively etc etc
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 15, 2014, 04:17:11 AM
To help control my infrastructure costs/RSPs, I use a "Centralized Facility" model.  I have only 3 planets with high-end HS and Foundry facilities, everything else is fairly puny. I **do** ship a lot of res and hydro back and forth between the outpost worlds and the central facilities.  I manage the hydro costs by keeping all the outposts within 1 galaxy of a central facility.

If anyone has any nuggets of wisdom regarding how to take "fortress" NPCs most efficiently (besides using Z's, natch!), I'm all ears!  Please share your advice with the rest of us.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on August 17, 2014, 06:14:27 AM
I ignore the "Fortress type" of NPC. But occasionally, I do find one of those sweetheart targets that have no plasmas and few battlewagons. But the are worth a fortune in dsps, even when tallying a loss on the hit. With no zeese lost, they are the most profitable, but rare targets in the game.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 17, 2014, 11:28:58 PM
Definitely rare, given that only 1 person (llaubacher) currently spawns them!  If Bruce Mays and Elnino get within 10% - 20% or so of llaubacher's RSPs, they should start spawning them, as well.  Bruce lost his ability to spawn the "bunnies" once llaubacher opened a big RSPs gap vs. Bruce.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Zarchne on August 17, 2014, 11:34:11 PM
If anyone has any nuggets of wisdom regarding how to take "fortress" NPCs most efficiently (besides using Z's, natch!), I'm all ears!  Please share your advice with the rest of us.

What mean distance are we talking about?  Hades' fuel efficiency becomes increasingly important the greater the distance.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 18, 2014, 01:20:41 AM
Hades' survivability against the fortresses also is an issue, though.  Here is a recent Elnino spawn, for an example.

The techs on this one actually are a bit low.  Assume a 30-system travel distance.

Encounter Large Abandoned Leviathan [x:xxx:xe] has:
RESOURCES:
* ore: 3,424,806,363 
* crystal: 4,039,844,367 
* hydrogen: 3,199,107,734 
================================
Total plunder: 5,331,879,232 (42656 carm / 213276 herc / 1066376 atlas)
DSP: 8,910,610,103 (243617894 Dios / 974471574 Zags)

SEEKERS'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 10,115,738
* Atlas Class Cargo: 604,977,619
* Apollo Class Fighter: 33,122,604
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 39,495,831
* Hercules Class Cargo: 16,709,572
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 121,278,250
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 16,993,430
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 38,497,083
* Athena Class Battleship: 2,105,275
* Ares Class Bomber: 9,996,086
* Hades Class Battleship: 2,568,368
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 67,477,041
* Zeus Class: 79,927

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 1,888,910,661
* Laser Cannon: 1,207,194,937
* Pulse Cannon: 139,217,600
* Particle Cannon: 214,862,385
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 34,456,828
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 24,574,685

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 18
* Weapons Tech: 18
* Shield Tech: 18

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 18, 2014, 01:32:33 AM
I BMed it with 1.2B Proms, running at 60%, and a hydro-equivalent force of Hades (4.8B Hades), also running at 60%.  The greater Hades losses drastically reduced the take of net converted res.  The Proms fleets yields about 3T net converted res, while the Hades fleet brings in only 1.2T net converted res.

The best result for the Hades, in terms of net converted res, is using 8.1B.  But, the fuel cost exceeds the Proms fuel cost, and the net converted res from the attack is only 1.74T, which is less than 60% of what I got with the Proms.  And, if I run an optimal Proms attack, I use 1.667B Proms and return 3.69T net res, at a cost of 652B hydro in fuel.

In actually, I hit this one with my Z-fleet and made a bit over 4.4T net res.  My Z-fleet wasn't big enough to "kill" the target.  If this target was hit with SFCO's largest Z-fleet, the attack would return about 5.93T net converted res -- and it still wouldn't be enough Z's to "kill" the target.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Louie Wu on August 18, 2014, 06:38:02 AM
What the what?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 18, 2014, 09:13:03 AM
Hi, Louie,

Higher up in this thread, someone was stating that they could kill "fortress" NPCs more efficiently with a non-Prom ship combination, than with Proms.  What I've provided is a sample of the "fortress"-style NPCs that those of us at the top deal with.  I'm asking for advice regarding how to handle this target most efficiently (Z's excluded from the solution).  Ship types used in the solution need to be limited to SFCO ship types.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: mophius on August 18, 2014, 09:51:39 AM
Only way i can cope with this type of NPC is to slow prom/ares fleet with a dio then send dios straight after it. Sometimes the NPC disappears but that is life.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: napl on August 18, 2014, 12:52:59 PM
Admirial T-Wayne - give 12B arts, 10B apollo, and 30M ares a shot...then hit effectiveness and see what the results say.

Go fast or I'll take that npc out from under you ;)  Of course, you can slow the fodder fleets too!

Your proms would be 1.1T hydro.  My fodder would be 500B.  Assuming both launched 100%
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 18, 2014, 03:26:54 PM
napl,

That is a VERY interesting solution!  It DOES beat the target, and it DOES use less hydro than does the Proms-based approach.  It still isn't as efficient as is the Proms-based solution, if you judge efficiency in terms of net converted resources gained in the attack.   

You have to love Apollos, though.  They most likely are the most under-rated ship type in SFCO.

Thanks for thinking through this option!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: napl on August 18, 2014, 03:31:33 PM
I can't take the credit for thinking it through, but I have put it into practice.  I think when you consider the amount of merchants required to just replace lost ships, the fodder option comes out ahead. 
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on August 18, 2014, 04:09:20 PM
I can't take the credit for thinking it through, but I have put it into practice.  I think when you consider the amount of merchants required to just replace lost ships, the fodder option comes out ahead.

Judged on hydro usage, you are very correct.  I really like this approach!

For people who are less sensitive to how many merchant trips they make, or for people who have "really big" hydro storages, the fact that the Proms solution provides substantially more net res for building "new stuff" might slant them in that direction.

Of course, the best solution of all is to use Z-balls, but I took that option off the table in the problem statement, because I already knew about that one :-)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 15, 2014, 05:54:50 AM
ok. time for the semi-monthly update on infrastructure.

At least one guy in the universe is running SY30/F25 combinations.  These build over 700K Proms per minute.

At least one player, maybe two, has moved up to Level 35 hydro storages.  Those cost about 34.36T ore and 34.36T crystal each.  You can create 1.784T hydro per merchant invocation with these, as long as you also are renting a Logistics Specialist, which give a +2 bump to each of your storage levels..

Anyone got any new mines or hydro synthesizers or research labs they want to talk about?  I know of at least one player who runs with Research Lab 30s.

Oh, fleets.  These is one player with a Z-fleet of around... nah, that is a state secret, I won't tell that :-)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: SilentBob on October 21, 2014, 07:52:10 PM
I'm running ship yard 21, foundry 19 and hydro 29 on all planets. Res is processed locally to save on hydro shipping costs and time
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 22, 2014, 06:21:31 PM
Hi, Adrian,

The experience with the guys at the very top (except for llaubacher, who creates unique huge high-fodder "free res" NPCs that can be taken with essentially zero losses) is that the uniform-infrastructure model eventually will collapse on you.  You end up putting too many RSPs into infrastructure, and not enough into ships.  The targets will outgrow the capabilities of your fleet due to all your infrastructure RSPs, and you will struggle to be able to take your own spawns.

So -- monitor the RSPs you put into infrastructure, and make contingency plans to move to a central-facilities model if it starts getting hard to take your own targets.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 22, 2014, 07:08:27 PM
And to explain why llaubacher is an exception to the truism that uniform infrastructure eventually will choke you -- most of his targets are composed of extremely weak ships and defenses.  So, even though he might not be able to come close to killing his targets as they grow, they continue to subject sufficiently large attacking fleets to very minor losses -- and they continue to yield a bountiful support of DSPs and res.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Tricky Dicky on October 22, 2014, 10:05:53 PM
i suppose its worthless me telling you guys i have F18's, SY28's, RL27's, HS27's

you would not beleive the struggle to get to my current rank of #56 lol

lack of res as i seem to be trading it for Hydro all the time
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on October 23, 2014, 11:06:06 AM
@richierich1980: I find myself in a similar situation. I am getting sufficient large targets lately to keep me busy when online, but by the time i do the hydro conversion from the df, I can only build a few more ships than what I lost, so growth has been very slow for me. But it is growth, nevertheless so I keep plodding along, lol. I assume most of the top 100 or so are in the same boat, and there are enough of these players that spend credits so it works well for BFG to maintain the games and keeps the grumble level down enough so that most players (SFCO) are enjoying their play time. I feel the game still has long range longevity potential contrary to all the doom-sayers wandering around with their banners claiming "the end is near". As in real life, this group of gypsies has been around forever, yet the "end" hasnt happened yet.
As far as your infrastructure is concerned, its not too bad. I would suggest your next build program be to bring your SYs up to level 30, this will allow you to add another build droid to them. If you dont use the dude that gives you two extra HSs, then they should also be built up, even though it gets very resource costly. I have always considered that +2 HS dude to be my most valuable credit asset so he is on permanent staff for me.   
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 24, 2014, 02:56:43 AM
+1 on what laz said.  The Logistics Specialist is essential, if you are into heavy merchanting mode.  The LS will reduce the cost of your merchanting by a factor of 2.56.

Second in line -- favor researching Armor over Weapons and Shields.  If you run some parametric analyses using BattleMentat, you will discover that Armor has a much more positive impact on reducing losses (and paying for hydro to rebuild ships) than does either of Weapons or Shields.  I keep my Armor at least one level higher than the other two.  The pattern is push Armor 2 levels ahead, bring the others up a level, then push armor back to a 2-level lead.

Another way to reduce hydro -- go The Way of The Z.  You will spend a lot less hydro on fuel, and a lot less hydro on replacing blown-up ships.  Even if you have only 1 Z-fleet, that is a nice start, and you will see the difference in hydro costs.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: bob uzzell on October 24, 2014, 03:53:13 AM
admiral, you did it again,, :P  i did not understand a thing you said   :'(
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: kru on October 24, 2014, 04:50:09 AM
firstly, i'd like to thank laz and t-wayne for some useful info which many people have said has helped.

I'd also like to point out/amend a few things to what you have both stated...

1- you are both very correct with how the logistic commander becomes one of the most valuable store items in the game.  Increasing that HS by 2 levels without spending the RSP is great..  In doing so, it helps not push you over (in technical speak) the RSP limit (as described by t-wayne) where your fleets are facing RSP spawn valued NPCs which is mostly derived from your building/infrastructure RSP instead of your fleet!

2- One of the second most valuable assets from the store can be the propulsion mechanic.  It is very under-estimated, but in fact saves me around 1.5 - 2 quintillion hydro per week....

Now, to put that into perspective, the propulsion mechanic costs 10k credits.  1.5Quintillion hydro costs 15k credits....so i actually save credits every week.  Although i do not employ this commander on a regular basis, i am considering it.

3- A/W/S.......

My opinion through my experiences has always been to ensure my weapons tech is higher than the 'average' shield tech. 

Obviously, i thought in SFCO the old school approach still applied in that shield and weapons took precedent over armour!!!! perhaps not these days.  My opinion on that dilemma, would be that it should at least make more practical sense to ensure your shield was higher than the average weapons tech? Surely by doing so it would begin (albeit loosely) to create an ineffectiveness rule?!?!

Thing is, even with higher armour tech, any impact upon the hull causing damage (reducing the base hull points) would instigate an immediate percentile chance of the ship being destroyed!!!!! Obviously, the more base points reduced in a round the more likely your ship is to be destroyed...And, you must remember, your shields reset to 100% at the end/start of every round....your hull (armour) doesn't
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 24, 2014, 05:32:10 PM
Bob,

To better understand what I'm talking about, do this:
-  Bring up one of your recent BattleMentat simulations of an attack vs. a Colony, Leviathan, what have you.
-  Increase your Armor by 1, and see how that affects the eRSPs that you gain.  Set you armor back to its base level.
-  Do the same for Weapons and for Shields.

In my attacks, I see that adding an increment of armor adds about 10x the increment of eRSPs that I gain with an increment of either Weapons or Shields.  That's why I keep armor a level or two ahead of the others,

@kru,

I agree with you about the Propulsion dude.  I use him/her as well as the Logistics guy.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Empty on October 26, 2014, 04:14:11 PM
Two questions:

1) How can you tell who spawned a particular NPC?

2) Why does llaubacher spawn bunnies? Is that an SFC thing for the top player(s) or a function of the ratio of the composition of his fleet?

Followup: If one of the above answers doesn't make this obvious, can you further explain this:

"If Bruce Mays and Elnino get within 10% - 20% or so of llaubacher's RSPs, they should start spawning them, as well.  Bruce lost his ability to spawn the "bunnies" once llaubacher opened a big RSPs gap vs. Bruce."
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 27, 2014, 07:29:03 PM
Hi, Empty,

The NPCs don't have player names on them, but they do come with other markers, such as color relative to the person who is scanning the Galaxy page and the associated eljerscript "NPC severity code".  You also can get some clues based upon the target's DSPs. Llaubacher's NPCs are about 10% larger (at the moment) than are mine.  So, his usually show as being light pink to me, and they will have a severity code of maybe 210 to 250.  Mine will be a bit smaller, so they will show as lighter pink to light green, with severity codes of maybe 230 to 280 (higher numbers are for smaller targets).  So, there is some overlap between his smallest and my largest, but in general his are larger than mine.

As to why llaubacher and I (and anyone else who is some unknown degree of closeness to the largest player) spawns bunnies -- I'm assuming it's a BFG design decision.  In SFCO, everyone else in the top 5% spawns targets that blow their attack ships to smithereens, but Libor and I get to spawn targets that are about as difficult for us to take as it would be to pick up sea shells on the beach, at low tide.  I understand that other universes (at least Nova) are the same way.

Just a built-in structural bias in the game that helps the richest get even richer.  I don't like this.  I've pointed out the inequity of this situation to BFG for several months, and the condition still remains. 

I'm assuming that anyone who gets within a certain range of the No. 1 RSPs player will spawn bunnies, but that hasn't been confirmed.  We would need for Bruce or Elnino to get closer to llaubacher, then we could determine if my assumption holds or not.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on October 27, 2014, 08:16:33 PM
Hey T-Wayne, the easiest interim solution would be for you and Libor to refuse to attack these bunnies. hahahahahaahahaha
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Empty on October 27, 2014, 10:57:42 PM
There are advantages of having this game design, players WANT to be near the biggest players, instead of wanting to find the spots of the universe FURTHEST from them, which kinda makes for a higher concentration around those players, and probably then, more action, vs. other desolate spots in the galaxy.

That being said, I'm sure there are a lot of other game designs that could be implemented that would do the same thing, but even better.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Empty on October 28, 2014, 02:36:37 AM
T-Wayne, thanks for your detailed response. I was kinda thinking along the lines of what you explained, but wanted confirmation. I guess up there in the stratosphere it is a lot easier to determine who spawned what. Down where I am, who knows? I don't think I could even spot my own spawns. :P
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Empty on October 28, 2014, 05:20:14 PM
Admiral T-Wayne or anybody else near the top, I was reading your posts from about a year ago, and judging by various levels of things, it looks like I'm about a year behind in some areas (perhaps more in others). It's just shocking to think that I could possibly be ANYWHERE near where you are in a year's time, so I'm not really expecting that kind of exponential growth. But, if you could go back a year ago, or 18 months ago, and give yourself some advice (like something I could use now), what would it be?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 28, 2014, 07:30:44 PM
Hi, Empty,

My cliche advice is as follows:

-  You earn the right to attack larger targets by having highly-capable foundries and shipyards.  My rule of thumb has been -- it's time to upgrade when I can't turn the res I bring in during any given day, into ships within 24 hours.
-  This one is subject to debate, but I've favored a "centralized facilities" model, with very high-capacity foundries, shipyards, and hydro storages, on a few worlds which service outpost worlds.  Res flows in from the outposts to the central worlds, gets turned into ships and hydro, which flow back out.  The Pro on this is that you can minimize the RSPs in your infrastructure and stick it into your fleet.  The Cons include:  you are a bit constrained with your ability to move planets around, and there IS a cost in shipping all that res around!  But, the approach has worked well for me.
-  If you can do so, negotiate "coopetition" agreements with the similar-sized players in your hunting territories.  Develop some understandings regarding approaches for insuring that only one person spends hydro on going for a given NPC.  Such agreements can be win-win for all the players who are involved.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on October 28, 2014, 08:38:15 PM
Of the three things T-Wayne suggests, my comments related directly to them are as follows:

-I think (and especially in light of the upcoming change to the spawning algorithm Matt has mentioned) that you should ultimately strive for SY30 and F20 but take it  as funds (resources) become available.

- Personally, I play a decentralized game in that all planets are self sufficient. This allows me to produce ships locally without transporting res all over the place and potentially creating a situation where I have tons of transport ships on the ground and available for food for other observant players. As well, on a good day when i have hit 3-4 nice sized NPCs in different areas, I can replace ships plus add to the fleet much more rapidly. And I can do the builds while online and safety the ships when leaving the game. In addition, there are players out there that are quite fond of nuking the crap out of you, you can produce ABMs way way more rapidly than anyone could possibly produce IBMs (assuming of course, that you are online at the time of the holocaust.)

-Excellent idea, and it works well for me as well. Additionally, it opens up an opportunity for friendly GA's against larger targets that you wouldnt normally hit. Of course this doesnt apply to the Fantastic Four, since they can hit any potential NPC that may spawn.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 21, 2014, 10:58:51 PM
I realize that this thread got started as a discussion regarding planetary development, but fleet-size bragging also should be tolerated here :-)  So:

First in SFCO with 300M Z's.  For that matter, I might be the only person (at the moment) with over 100M Z's.

Yeah, yeah, you guys in the faster universes with trillions and quadrillions of Z's, I realize this is a drop in your pond.  But, hey, it took a lot of work to do this!



Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Commander Kangar on November 21, 2014, 11:08:01 PM
I think that was a typo TW, you accidentally wrote 300M. I'm sure you didn't mean 300K, because several have that many Z's, you probably meant like 3Million zeese. It's a simple mistake, anyone could have mistyped that. Anyways, congratulations!! 3 million is a lot of zee-balls.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on November 22, 2014, 01:52:32 AM
24,960,311,460 current fleet for admiral t-wayne.3 million! (referencing how Kim supposedly broke the internet with butt pic... you just broke star fleet.  congrats. ill crawl back into a hole

i know of a player with over 1 million zeese.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on November 22, 2014, 01:55:35 AM
It was no typo, Kangar (maybe)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on November 22, 2014, 01:59:20 AM
i cant even imagine 300 million total ships.... i might need to find a new game. 

can i be the first pan handler in sfco? ill claim it lol
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Commander Kangar on November 22, 2014, 02:08:02 AM
You wouldn't be the first, not by a long shot..
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 22, 2014, 03:50:53 AM
There was no typo.  Three hundred million Z-balls.

Why so many?, someone might reasonably ask.

I need 'em to deal with my darned NPCs.  The current objective is to split the Z-fleet into 3 sub-fleets, from the current 2, at the end of this weekend.  This will enable me to deal with about 9 targets every 2 days. 

To see why I need so many of these things, take this BM URL and run the calcs over a range of Z's -- say, from 80M to 150M.  Use Excel or a piece of graph paper to plot the following values vs. the number of Z's -- DSPs taken, eRSPs (assume an attack distance of, say, 20 systems), and lost Z's.  110M Z's provides a reasonable result (I should be able to have 3 110M-Z fleets by the end of the weekend, and I'll keep growing them from that point).  Once you get up above around 130M Z's, the incremental value from adding more Z's isn't very much.  I was thinking about getting up to 400M and then splitting, but this little analysis convinced me that I could split at around 330M.  Hitting 3 targets with 110M Z's each yields a lot more benefit than does hitting 2 targets with 165M each.

http://battlementat.com/#aArmor=22&aEventClock=&aEventType=&aJet=21&aLocation=8%3A295%3A10&aPropulsionMechanic=1&aPulse=16&aShield=21&aWarp=17&aWeapons=21&dApollo=1398030870&dAres=31946380&dArmor=17&dArtemis=368002759&dAthena=135265631&dAtlas=5113856102&dCarmanor=746788710&dCrystal=101955793318&dDecoy=1&dDionysus=1796211094&dGauss=630299215&dHades=98045407&dHercules=66885993&dHydrogen=67127320573&dLarge=1&dLaser=10162893997&dLocation=8%3A309%3A8e&dMissile=26265040189&dOre=44017925936&dParticle=2116179559&dPlasma=223421806&dPoseidon=104377686&dPrometheus=474342340&dPulse=1121638896&dRSP=350448154605&dShield=17&dWeapons=17&dZagreus=320496187&dZeus=2096476



Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Commander Kangar on November 22, 2014, 04:06:15 AM
I think if I even just LANDED my heph in one of your systems it would immediately explode.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 22, 2014, 05:03:23 PM
Nah, I'd have to catch you first!  BTW, I expect to have 345M - 355M Z's by the end of the weekend.  I'll be splitting the Z-fleet into 3 pieces then, in order to be able to go after more targets.  For example, I'm having to pass on 3 big NPCs today, simply due to lack of Z-fleets to take 'em on.  Each one of these would be worth around 150B - 160B game points, between their DSPs and the RSPs to be gained from the DF.  Adding one more of these per day is significant.

We will be seeing 1T-point days in a month or so.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: giZer on November 22, 2014, 07:49:08 PM
damn
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: LastSplatter on December 19, 2014, 12:32:16 PM
HOLY F#@*&G MOLY Batman

One day  ;D
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 20, 2014, 04:22:37 AM
My previous post, announcing 300M Z's, was from Nov. 22.  I should have something else to announce in the way of fleet composition before Christmas gets here.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: VLLAD on December 20, 2014, 07:25:45 AM
Why keep it a secret ...drop the bombshell now...

some may have lost their fleets by then so wont be in a proper state to congratulate you.


Taking a guess...5 zeee ball fleets with 200 mil balls ?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 20, 2014, 01:26:32 PM
5 fleets would be stretching it a bit too much :-).  I like for each of my fleets to be able to take at least 85% of the DSPs from one of my self-spawns.  In some cases I can take that many DSPs with a 200M-unit Z-fleet, but every few days BFG changes things up and makes it so that type of fleet takes a bit less than 80%. 

At the moment, I have 3 Z-fleets, each with a bit over 300M units.  The objective is to have 1000M total units by Christmas.  I might split into 4 fleets at that point; I'll have to do some analysis vs. some self-spawns to determine if that'll let me consistently achieve my 85% objective.  Earlier analyses suggested that 1500M was a better split-point, but we will see.

So, just assume that I'll have the 1B Z's by Christmas.  I'll be right around that number by then.  It depends on the availability of enough self-spawn targets to provide the res.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: giZer on December 20, 2014, 03:16:36 PM
wow thats a crazy z fleet
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: VLLAD on December 20, 2014, 04:49:37 PM
Thats crazy but so cool.

i might be able to cobble enough rez for 1B probes but ill just imagine about having all those zeeees

Thats a brill achievement.  8)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on December 20, 2014, 05:44:54 PM
Well now, messing around with BM, I find that a simple fleet of 1 trillion proms should take care of that. hahaahhha
On the more serious side, it IS an awesome feat. An impenetrable defense screen as well as the ideal fleet makeup for the NPCs at your level.
What is your next goal, T? Now that you are at the top, I am sure you will get bored if you dont have an alternate goal, as I discovered when I reached there last year. I am still enjoying the game a year later due to having other things in the game to amuse me other than the run to the top.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 20, 2014, 09:26:41 PM
laz,

You are so right -- about the danger of getting bored!  In fact, I believe that one significant thing that enabled me to get to No. 1 was that your Alliance mate and our friend, Libor, simply got bored and ran out of reasons to keep playing hard.

My next goal actually has two stages along the way to achieving it:
-  10B Z's.
-  100B Z's

It's easy to think, "that'll take forever!".  But, it really won't.  I've tripled the Z-fleet in a bit less than a month.  If I assume that I can sustain doubling in size for the next few months, I'll be at the 10B mark in less than 4 months, and at the 100B mark in less than 4 months after that.

A lot of other stuff has to occur along the way to being able to reach these milestones:
-  Build up the Foundries at the rate of about 1 level per month.  I'm at level 27 right now.  So, 8 months from now, they'll be at around Level 35.
-  Build up the Hydro Storages at the rate of about 1 level per month.  Eight months from now, they'll be at around Level 44.
-  I try to keep the Dios:Z's ratio at around 30:1, so we are talking about having around 3T Dios in 8 months.
-  I'm keeping the Carms:Z's at around 5:1, so we are talking about having around 500B Carms in 8 months.
 
Those numbers sound silly, but that is how this game is evolving -- the upper end is more or less doubling in size each month.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on December 21, 2014, 01:38:16 AM
Hmmmmm, I wonder if you developing such a lead over everybody else might be discouraging to new players entering the game. Maybe i should get a gang of thugs together to whittle you down to our size, hahahhaahahahah
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 21, 2014, 04:01:31 AM
Bring it on, friend!  I'll be on the lookout for you and your hooligans!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: llaubacher on December 22, 2014, 11:11:54 PM
Those numbers sound silly, but that is how this game is evolving -- the upper end is more or less doubling in size each month.

Are you sure you wanted to use 'evolving'? IMLTHO 'degrading' would be more describing ....
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Empty on December 23, 2014, 01:35:06 AM
Doesn't the theory of evolution include something like, there are lots of bad mutations for every 1 good mutation? If that is the case than evolving is appropriate, even if the evolution means degrading. If it's a bad mutation it won't survive. :)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 23, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
Fortunately, some of the evolutions (in my opinion) are making the game more interesting.  Chief among these in SFCO are the war tournaments.  I realize that these were created by players (thank you, Rayman and others!), but BFG is nurturing these by providing prizes and also code changes to tighten up some of the game's war-related use cases.

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Jabmets me on December 23, 2014, 11:12:08 AM
ill help you laz......wait a minute....as a put tail between my legs at the sight of 50 b zeese......sending over a fruit basket to t wayne....see everything smoothed over
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: lazoputz on December 23, 2014, 03:12:59 PM
@jabmets: 50 billion zeese by themselves are no problem, its that prom fleet that worries me
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 24, 2014, 12:38:39 AM
Yep, it's easy to run from the Z's - but they make for a mighty nasty ninja!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on December 31, 2014, 12:51:45 AM
And i thought a lv11 oracle was a great millstone. Time to rethink my goals :)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 31, 2014, 02:22:14 AM
@farsan300,

A Level 11 Oracle is a GREAT achievement!  Every player is at a different point in the game, with their own meaningful objectives.  Don't be shy about letting us know when you've achieved something that you think is pretty special!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 01, 2015, 12:29:28 AM
And, back to the infrastructure...

SY30/F27 combos (3 of these, the other planets have only F18's for accelerating research lab construction).  When the shipyards are stuffed with Basic Androids, they can crank out a bit over 2M Z's an hour, each.  F28 upgrades are around the corner, I most likely will need those during the next 2 weeks or so.

Once the current research project finishes in a few days, I'll be upgrading my research labs.  I'll be bumping up the 8 "helper" labs 3 levels each.  The one from which I always start my research projects will be incremented 6 levels, from Level 30 to Level 36.  When this lab is stuffed with 13 Basic Androids and I purchase a Scientist, my research time (vs the base time with no Scientist and no Androids) will be reduced by 77%.  You'd think that purchasing 2 more Basic Androids (from the 11 I use in the current RL 30) would reduce the research time by 8%, but the actual effect is more profound than this.  It turns out that the time needed to perform a project using the RL 36 initiator is only (1- 0.25 - 13 * 0.04)/(1 - 0.25 - 11 * 0.04) * 100% =  74% of the time when using the RL 30 initiator.  Adding those two additional Basic Androids reduces the actual research time by 26% (pretty spiffy!).  This considers only the effect of the Scientist and the Basic Androids.  On top of this is the reduction due to increasing the overall effective research lab level from 252 to 282.

<<ATW -- the following paragraph is erroneous, see the subsequent posts by llaubacher and me regarding the Research Bonus cap.>>

If you do some analysis, you learn that building a Research Lab Level 54, stuffing it with 19 Basic Androids (good for a 76% time reduction), and buying a Scientist (good for a 25% reduction) has a magic result!  Any research project started at that lab finishes in zero time!  There is a kicker -- that lab, plus all the pre-requisite lower-level labs, costs about 7.2 Quintilian ore, 14.4 Quintilian crystal, and 7.2 Quintilian hydro.  It takes over 250T Carms to handle that much res.  Ouch!  But, getting one of those labs is part of my vision for future development.  I figure it'll take me 1.5 - 2 years to grow large enough to be able to build that sucker.  Yes, there is enough stuff in this game to keep any of us interested for a long, long time and working hard to improve!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: llaubacher on January 01, 2015, 02:39:16 AM
> ....  will be reduced by 77%

There's a cap at 75% ....
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 01, 2015, 11:50:04 AM
Phooie!

I didn't know about that, thanks for letting me know! 

There goes one major visionary goal!

This wasn't documented in the SFC wiki.  I've modified this wiki page section:

http://wiki.playstarfleet.com/index.php/Research_Lab#Research_Time

to reflect the cap.

There goes that dream of Warp 40 Zeuses  :'(.  Just not enough time available in my remaining lifetime to perform the research!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Gypsyhunter88 on January 01, 2015, 03:00:18 PM
All warp gates lvl 4
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 01, 2015, 03:49:18 PM
Whew!  That is SUPER!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Pantin on January 02, 2015, 04:12:08 AM
just for the record, T-wayne, I think you misunderstood llau's post.

It's not a research cap, it's an everything cap. You can't get more than a 75% reduction on anything.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 02, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
But the research was what I was interested in, in this case.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on February 27, 2015, 08:02:38 PM
Time for an update on levels of infrastructure buildings!

I know of at least one d-mode player with Level 51 hydro synthesizer units.  Can anyone top that?

In the continuing attempt to control hydro merchanting costs, many of us continue to level-up our hydro storage units.  The largest ones of which I am aware are Level 40's.  I understand that, when augmented by the Logistics Specialist, those units permit hydro to be created in gulps of 18.7T units per merchant invocation.

In the continuing effort to build more things, faster, at least one player has Level 30 foundries.  When coupled with a Level 30 shipyard and 11 Basic Androids, those things spew out a bit over 16M Z's per hour (over 4400 per second).

Anyone else have heavy-duty buildings and such that they are aware of?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 04, 2015, 04:48:08 PM
And, time for an update on fleet growth.

Back on December 23, I cracked the 1B-Z barrier.  Yesterday -- 10 weeks later -- I cracked the 10B-Z mark.

Yes, there definitely is some brag in this post!  But, I also let you guys and gals know this, so that you have a vision regarding the sorts of things you can achieve in SFCO if you play the game diligently and you are following a reasonable path to success.  Define your objectives, define strategies that you can use to reach the objectives, and build and follow a plan to perform the strategies. 

See you in the Top 10!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: KMC on March 09, 2015, 01:03:22 AM
lol, interesting to look back on the 2013 posts, where even top players were predicting that HS 22 or 23 was going to be their "cap."

I don't have much claim on this contest (esp after 6-7 months in d-mode), but I guess I could "brag" about having a very cold+big planet (-97C on a 318-fielder). That was obtained way back, when it actually mattered to have more productive (cold) hydro mines.

Given the growth rate in this game, I'm glad I bowed out at rank 20. To climb further, I'd probably have to start spending money for hydro. But it's interesting to watch from the sidelines, seeing these figures rise exponentially to amusing numbers (reminds me of Dragonball Z power levels).
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 21, 2015, 07:06:24 AM
I've just heard of one player who has built Level 41 Hydro Storage units and Level 32 Foundries.  I understand that this player's shipyard/foundry combos are good for around 64M Z's per hour, each.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: T.H.O.R. on April 02, 2015, 05:08:48 AM
After catching up on this thread, I am starting to feel very, very small. 
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: censored on April 02, 2015, 06:04:51 AM
I was both right and wrong in this thread. I hate being wrong. :(
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on June 02, 2015, 10:55:52 PM
It's time for a status update.

One thing that I'm finding is that higher-level hydro storages and foundries are hard to do.  For example, I'm collecting res for an HS45 -> HS46 upgrade.  This sucker costs over 70.3 Quads of ore and crystal, each.  The corresponding F36 -> F37 upgrade will cost 85.9 Quads ore and 34.35 Quads crys, with 17.18 Quads of the ore being merchanted into hydro -> 22 trips to the merchant, with that merchant working with the HS46.

I think in terms of the cost of building 1T new Z's.  I ran some calcs the other day, and I discovered the following:

Building 1T new Z's, using hydro merchanted using an HS48, will cost credits worth around $625.

Building 1T new Z's, using hydro merchanted using an HS50, will cost credits worth around $244.

To get below a cost of $100 per 1T new Z's will require an HS52.  No problem, you say.  It will cost "only" about 4.5 QUINTS of ore and crystal, each.  And this doesn't include the cost of the foundry upgrades that will be needed to build the ships (and the HS upgrades) in a decent amount of time!

A lot of time and a lot of growth has to occur before I'll be big enough to build that HS52!  I'm thinking at least 4 more months, most likely closer to 6 months.  So, I still have some long-term objectives to look forward to, in this game.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: censored on June 02, 2015, 11:22:46 PM
How long are you looking at waiting for HS45 -> 46 right now (provided you had the res right now)?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on June 03, 2015, 12:24:55 AM
I'm moving the last of the res down to the planet, now.   It'll take 14:47 to build - Cap 30 w Basic Androids, F36.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: censored on June 03, 2015, 12:59:50 AM
I'd probably skip the Foundry for awhile then. If you had all the res necessary it would only take about a week to do every single level up to & including 50. Another to get 51. Unless you need the Foundry to spend res on ships it is just going to slow down how long it takes to get the HS up.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on June 03, 2015, 02:09:36 AM
A funny thing happens if you just focus on building the HS's -- the targets keep growing on you (due to increased RSPs from the HSes), your fleets stay the same size, and it gets to where you struggle to take your own spawns (and no spawns except my own spawns are worthwhile for me to hit).  So, the general approach is I build fleets for 2 - 3 weeks, all the while working to build up a crystal surplus.  Once I save up about half the crystal that is needed for the next level of HS, I then stop building ships, collect the rest of the res that I need for the HS, and start building that unit.  While this is building, I focus on collecting res for the next level of Foundry.  Once the HS finishes, I start the Foundry upgrade. 

So, right now I spend about 10% of my time focused on collecting res for the HS and F upgrades.  The rest of the time, I'm building ships.

This 3-week cycle works pretty well for me.  Right now, I'm growing at a rate a bit less than 3x per month.  The HS and F double in size with each upgrade.  My self-spawns double in size about every 3 weeks.  As a result, I have to take about the same number of targets for each round of upgrades. 

This pace of upgrading appears to be sustainable and scaleable.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: censored on June 03, 2015, 02:18:43 AM
I should have guessed you'd have a system set up lol
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: slindhurst on June 03, 2015, 04:55:10 AM
Do you have a problem with the cost in credits increasing each cycle? Each time you double, your hydro needs also double, but each trade in the upgraded HS is only 1.6 times as big as before. So you need 25% more trades, meaning 25% more credits.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on June 03, 2015, 05:23:21 AM
slindhurst,

You are absolutely right regarding the direction of credits expenditure.  It just keeps growing, as a result of the exponential rate of growth of our accounts.

I understand that, in the faster unis, the point has been reached where the resources return from the NPCs has flattened out.  That actually might not be a bad thing to have happen in SFCO!  That would change the rate of RSPs (and fleet) growth we are seeing from being exponential, to just being linear, and it also would remove the need for having an ever-increasing number of Dios to scoop ever-larger debris fields.  We'd be able to stop leveling up our HS and Foundry units, and our credits expenditures would stabilize.

It'll be interesting to see if we do follow the path that the other unis reportedly have experienced.  Stay tuned!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 21, 2015, 03:50:24 AM
Back on June 2 I was collecting res to start a Hydro Storage 45 -> HS 46 upgrade, to be followed by an F36 -> F37 upgrade.

Things have moved on since then.  About 1.5 weeks ago I bumped up the key infrastructure elements to HS48 and F39.  I still follow the upgrade approach that I described in a previous conversation with censored.  At the moment, I'm about half-way finished with collecting the first half of the crystal I'll need for the HS49 upgrade.  I hope to reach that level (the first half ~ 281 Quads of crys) by the weekend.  At that point I'll switch from building ships to hoarding res for the HS, with the expectation that it'll take me about 6 to 7 NPC hits to bring in the rest of the resources I'll need to build that HS.  After that, I'll decide whether I build the F40 or maybe skip the F upgrade this time.

With respect to fleet units -- I passed the 1T Z's mark yesterday, a bit less than 7 months after passing the 1B Z's barrier (did that last Dec. 23).  I don't expect to grow at quite this rate in the future -- one can play SFC like a maniac for only so long, eventually we have to pause and resume living some variant of a "normal" life (ha!).
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on August 18, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
I have a lv54 hydro mine. Does that count for anything?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on August 19, 2015, 11:29:30 PM
congrats farsan,

what is the temperature or your planet?  what is the hourly production at that level? It might be 100 lifetimes before that repays the ore and crystal required to build that high, but I say go for level 60. keep up the good work

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on September 14, 2015, 03:06:56 AM
just finished a lv12 oracle and lv57 hydro mine
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: llaubacher on September 14, 2015, 10:11:46 AM
You win a cookie :)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Rogan on September 14, 2015, 08:27:29 PM
just finished a lv12 oracle and lv57 hydro mine

That's almost like saying "I have particle tech 40 and a factory 36"

I do like the Oracle 12, but is it really worth scanning that far away? Of course 'in universe' hits with your heph may justify that scanning distance requirement.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Treakle the Sweet on September 14, 2015, 09:46:28 PM
I want a cookie!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Vashanka on September 14, 2015, 09:51:41 PM
*Places a plate of Darkside Cookies just out of Treakle the Sweet's reach*
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Toxic on September 14, 2015, 10:10:48 PM
(http://www.picgifs.com/avatars/avatars/cookies/avatars-cookies-362158.gif) (http://www.picgifs.com/avatars/)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on September 16, 2015, 01:01:45 AM
Finished lv27 foundry. Is that better? The Topic is other things in the game, not just the highest foundry, shipyard, or fleet size
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on September 19, 2015, 04:56:17 PM
For a change I would like to open up the topic to bragging about a heavily invested planet. I have seen shipyard 18, a foundry at 10. Who claims the highest research lab? Highest mines? Maybe you feel proud about a combination of infrastructure and defense? How many fields have been used up for useful buildings?

I understand people are always going to be a buzz kill and say RSP is overrated because of NPC farmville, but I do not care. Original universe has been around for what 3-4 years now, and I bet there are some intense planets out there.

I think it would be a nice read.

That's the original post from the red emperor.  So, this thread **is** about bragging rights regarding who has the highest-level this or that.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on September 19, 2015, 05:01:10 PM
My latest "bests" are F42 and HS52.  I try to level-up the HS at least once a month, more often is better. I push up the F in order to manage the build time of the HS.  BTW, that F, along with its SY37, can build a bit more than 1.6B Z's per minute.

I think that Bruce Mays has the highest lab level -- I've seen a Level 48 lab on one of his planets.  That is well beyond anything I have at the moment.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on October 02, 2015, 10:05:04 PM
lv 60 hydro mine, lv 20 missile silo, lv30 Capital  8)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on October 04, 2015, 05:29:53 PM
Those are excellent farsan!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 19, 2015, 05:08:57 PM
It's been a couple of months since I provided an account update.

Back on Sept. 19th I had F42 and HS52 as my tops.  Since then, I've upgraded my one central planet to F44 and HS55.  I most likely will stop building ships, and start collecting res for the HS56 upgrade, sometime this coming weekend.

I've also upgraded all my labs to Level 48.  In order to keep the lab build times reasonable, I upgraded the foundry on each of my 8 outpost planets to Level 37.

One thing I've discovered -- as you move up to higher and higher levels of the key infrastructure buildings, the less practical it is to keep uniform infrastructure on all planets.  This is why I moved all my planets to G8 -- so that I can have efficient resource flows back-and-forth between each of the outposts and the central processing planet, and focus on investing in that one central processing location.

With respect to the fleet -- I currently run 5 NPC-hunting fleets, each with a bit over 10T Z's.  Each of these fleets is supported by about 36.75T Dios.  Right now, I'm adding about 2T new Z's per day.  But, this will be stopped (no new ship builds!) during res collection for the next HS.  I figure that it will take me 6 or 7 days to collect the necessary res.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Gypsyhunter88 on November 19, 2015, 10:19:35 PM
All warp gates lvl 4
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 20, 2015, 12:26:07 AM
Gypsy,

That is excellent!  I know that it took a lot of time and patience to get all those gates to that value.  Did you do it while you were actively playing, or while you were in d mode?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Gypsyhunter88 on November 20, 2015, 04:28:40 AM
I did it in the beginning when I was still chasing EF LEF... About two years ago I stationed 50k Hades on each planet with enough Dios and cargo and just hunted from each planet I had my main fleet proms area athenas on my main planet... Was so happy the day I was able to warp them back together for a reunion... 😂 lol
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 20, 2015, 07:29:49 PM
You sure have me beat!  I have a WG4 on my main moon in 8:252, everything else still is WG1.  Once I finish my Lunar Base 13s on all my other moons, I think that I'll upgrade the WG on one moon at a time, that way I'll be losing only about 11% of my potential resource production capacity at any point in time.  I think that I probably will stop at WG3's on the other 8 moons.  It'll take about 600 hours to take each moon from WG1 -> WG3, so I'm talking about a 200-day construction project.  That's not too bad -- some of my upcoming research projects are going to be longer than that!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Tricky Dicky on December 01, 2015, 09:21:07 PM
Holy proverbial cow, i thought i was doing ok with my F29 and SY36, labs at 35 and HS39 on my main planet, when i left the game for those few months i deleted all my planets except one decent colony, i have returned and im rebuilding.

T-wayne, you are a god :D

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 03, 2015, 04:11:33 AM
Bruce Mays actually has one lab that, at last spying, was at Level 50.  So, Bruce is the lab level champion, at least with respect to highest lab on a given planet.  I think that I still have the lead with respect to effective lab level, with my 9 Lab 48's.

A god???  Nah.  I've just whacked a lot of NPCs with a lot of Z's for a long time!

I did finish that HS 56 upgrade.  Building HS units (and reducing the cost of hydro) dominates my game life, thus I'm collecting res for the HS 57. This one will take about 144 quins of ore and crys, right now I'm a bit less than 45% finished with that res collection effort.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Tricky Dicky on December 05, 2015, 09:22:20 AM
T-Wayne, Z's are real slow and on my gaming ways i need the proms except they are really juicy on fuel however i may start to go down the z-ball route as the hydro saving would just be awesome.

how many z-balls would it take to take down a trillion dsp for example. as thats what i do with the proms at the present time :)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 05, 2015, 11:25:40 PM
Hi, TD,

The number of Z's needed for a T DSPs depends upon the target composition, natch.  For example, a target with a lot of Plasma Cannons will yield fewer DSPs, because the Plasmas break the Z rapid-fire chains.

For today's hits, I'm averaging about 1266 DSPs per Z.  So, it would take about 790M Z's to get 1T DSPs.

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Tricky Dicky on December 16, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
thanks ATW, im at HS41 and going for HS42 at the moment, i got my F30 as well and i got 1.6B Z's so far just never used them until yesterday which netted me 2.7T dsp, my personall best :)

thanks for the info, i now got the Z ball fleet hunting down to a T.

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: daddy rabbit on December 19, 2015, 08:38:09 PM
All I hunt with now thanks t TWayne and a few others, showing me the way
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 20, 2015, 05:32:11 PM
Today is a bit of a milestone day for me, so I wanted to record this result.

I first cracked 1B Z's on Dec 23, 2014.  I think that I was the first player in SFCO to reach that total. 

How times change!  It's Dec 20, 2015 today, and I'll crack 100T Z's by the time the current ship-building queue clears.  That's a 100,000-fold increase in capability in a bit less than a year.

The growth enablers, as always, are my No. 1 Hydro Storage unit and No. 1 Foundry.  I currently have HS 57 and F 45.  I currently am collecting res for the HS 58 upgrade.  I imagine that an F 46 will follow soon after, mainly to control the build time for the subsequent HS 59.

To help folks understand how important the big HS units are, here is some math.
-  It takes 1 quintillion hydro to build 1T Zs.
-  An HS 57 + Logistics Specialist converts OC to H at 55.2 quadrillion H per conversion.
-  So, it takes 18.12 conversions for 1T new Z's, using an HS 57, for a cost of 90.6K credits.
-  The best credits purchase rate is $200 per 2.5M credits, for a cost of $8 per 100K credits.
-  So, the equivalent real-currency cost for building 1T new Z's, using an HS 57, is $7.25

Add into this the hydro needed to get the res, the hydro for the supporting Dios, etc., and you are talking about something like $9 per 1T Z. 

So, ever larger and larger HS's will remain the goal, to continually drive down the cost of hydro and the cost of building up the fleet!  The HS 58 drives the cost to about $4.50 per T, the HS 59 drives the cost to about $2.83 per T, etc.  It takes an HS 62 to drive the cost below $1 per T Z's.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: occuli imperator on December 20, 2015, 06:15:21 PM
I bet a lot of players feel way better now....
we got a  :-\ target to beat in less time that we got to live...

3..2..1..go
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: the red emperor on December 27, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Admiral, you are a mad scientist. I love reading your post on the understanding of game concepts. Thank you.100 trillion zeese, I think the server would cry calculating a battle with them. Keep up the good work
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on December 29, 2015, 08:41:46 AM
@red,

I guess that it's just the nerdy engineer in me :-)

Working the numbers does help me identify concrete goals to set and drive toward.  I think this continual identification of meaningful goals, and then working toward them, is one of the things that helps me maintain my interest in the game.

The current goal is to have an HS 62 by the end of April.  Given that a lot of this res collecting and building will occur during the Tourney 5 period makes achieving this a bit more difficult, but this obstacle will just add to the fun of trying to get there!
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 16, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
I passed 1Q Z's and 40Q Dios a few days ago.  The enabler, as always, is the infrastructure.  The current HS is Level 61, and the current high-end Foundry is Level 48.  These help control the cost of hydro merchanting (still too high, and I still do way too many merchants a day) and enable me to crank out a lot of ships per day -- around 75T new Z's and 3Q Dios each day, more or less. 

With respect to labs, I think that Bruce Mays might have the highest-level lab in the game -- he might have a Level 55 or so.  My highest is Level 54.  I stuff this full of Basic Androids, so I'm (and Bruce can, too) able to get the full 75% research acceleration without needing a Scientist.  The rest of my labs are Level 51s.  I'll be raising these other 8 planets to Level 54 as well, before I start my next long-term research project, which probably will be Warp 19.

The previous goal to get to HS 62 by the end of April appears to be pretty achievable, now.  I might go for a stretch goal and aim for a Level 63 by then.  That'll reduce the cost per trillion Z's (and 40 trillion Dios) to credits worth around $0.60 US.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Vinegar Joe on March 16, 2016, 06:37:51 PM
Mines 1-1-2, shipyard 41, F 40, H storage 47
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 16, 2016, 07:32:55 PM
Those are about the right mine levels, VJ.  Established, active players don't need mines these days :-)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on March 22, 2016, 12:05:41 AM
My primary planet has these.
Mines are 1/1/60
Shipyard 39
Hs 42
Foundry 34

No where near you all but slowly coming up. I think I just reached a billion zeus and 550 billion dio a week ago. Haven't done much building, more into saving resources right now.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 25, 2016, 03:08:48 AM
farsan,

What I tell all my alliance mates -- the main person we each compete against in this game is ourself.  We are where we are, the goal simply is to keep getting better.  Set aggressive goals, work hard, beat them, then set the next round of goals!  Anyway, that's what I've done in order to stay interested in this game for 4.5 years.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: LastSplatter on May 12, 2016, 07:37:49 PM
I have another thing

New Pieceful alliance. Seriously Pieceful  :-X
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Stina Starr on May 16, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Farsan, if it makes you feel any better, your infrastructure looks better than mine... I didn't really compare but just glancing at your post, I know I don't have a level 60 mine anywhere. LOL
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Empty on July 25, 2016, 02:41:43 PM
Hey T-Wayne (or others),

I think I saw that you had setup (or proposed setting up) your planets spaced 50 systems apart in one galaxy since that would give you maximum coverage. I've been thinking about this since I first read it a couple of years ago. So, I have a setup in mind that seems like it would be more efficient. You can tell me whether or not it would do what it seems to me like it would do.

I propose a configuration of 7 planets spaced 1 system apart each. One planet on each end spaced 25 (or maybe a few more) systems from the cluster. In this configuration, all of the NPCs generated from the cluster are within the range of your planets, and the likelihood that they will generate within 15 systems of one of your planets, is 80% rather than 60% for those center planets in the other configuration, thus potentially cutting down transit times. If you push the end planets out to 30 systems, the chance of those 7 planet generating an NPC within a 15 system range is 90%. (I'm doing the math in my head as write this so, I could be all wrong.) In the configuration you proposed the chances of the end planets generating an NPC within 15 systems is 30%. In this configuration, the chances of the end planets generating NPCs within 15 systems is 65%. However, what makes this most intriguing to me is the higher chances of in-system NPCs. In this proposed configuration the chances are around 9% as all 9 of the planets have the possibility of generating an NPC within the other 9 planets' systems. In the configuration you outlined, it seems like there would only be about a 1% chance of an in-system NPC generating, or maybe 2% if the edges of the creation envelopes overlap slightly. An almost 10% chance of an in-system NPC seems super appealing.

So, this may be really bad as far as war goes, but how does it look for NPC farming? Am I missing something?
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Stina Starr on July 25, 2016, 03:29:31 PM
Besides the fun of attacking your neighbors...? Lol I'm only mostly jesting...don't pay me any attention.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Pantin on July 25, 2016, 09:43:44 PM
However, what makes this most intriguing to me is the higher chances of in-system NPCs. In this proposed configuration the chances are around 9% as all 9 of the planets have the possibility of generating an NPC within the other 9 planets' systems. In the configuration you outlined, it seems like there would only be about a 1% chance of an in-system NPC generating, or maybe 2% if the edges of the creation envelopes overlap slightly. An almost 10% chance of an in-system NPC seems super appealing.
Yes, your set up is much much better for in system NPcs and, from a NPC farming standpoint, just superior period to the 1 planet per 50 systems set up because of the almost complete overlap of NPC spawn generation like you mentioned.

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: commander abаб on July 26, 2016, 05:50:50 AM
Besides the fun of attacking your neighbors...? Lol I'm only mostly jesting...don't pay me any attention.

If he's sucessful, the neighbors will come to him.  :)
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Treakle the Sweet on July 26, 2016, 02:50:03 PM
The only issue with setting up like that is that, since you will have a much more limited number of systems for targets to generate in and each system can have a maximum of 3 NPCs, unless you are the only person in the area, you will find small targets taking up most of the spaces and will not generate as many targets yourself.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Stina Starr on July 26, 2016, 03:50:55 PM
Who (besides like maybe the top whatever) is hitting their own targets?? And that is so true...I almost feel like I need to move some of my locations...the NPCs are sooooo green! LOL
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Treakle the Sweet on July 27, 2016, 06:08:05 AM
Depending on where I am in my building cycle, like really near upgrades and intense building, I end up hitting my own because I am too far behind the others around me.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on July 28, 2016, 06:32:08 AM
@Empty,

If you have 7 of your planets clustered within just a few systems of each other, and a couple of outposts spaced 30 systems or so from the cluster, and you are willing to travel only 15 systems for targets, you will be missing out on around 50% of your potential spawns.

Assuming that you are in the top 5% in RSPs, you'll be spawning targets up to 100 systems from your planets.  Let's call the center of your configuration "250", and let's consider that you have planets located at 214, 244, 246, 248, 250, 252, 254, 256, 286.  Here are the percentage of each planet's spawns that will be outside of your hunting range:

214:  85% to the "left" and 13% to the "right", for an average of 49% out of range.
244:  55% to the "left" and 43% to the "right" for an average of 49% out of range.
246:  53% to the "left" and 45% to the "right" for an average of 49% out of range...

You get the drift.

Further, there IS the issue, as commander abаб mentioned, that a hostile player could set up 3 planets and cover all your spawns just as easily as you are doing.  In fact, one of the reasons why I have the type of spacing that I do is to make it more difficult for a hostile to commit a relatively small number of planets and benefit inordinately from my spawns.

With all this being said, I DO like Vashanka's setup in G4, among others. He's able to hit about 92% of his spawns, traveling no more than 15 systems.  His planetary spacing also makes it somewhat difficult for a squatter to snatch an exorbitant number of his spawns.

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: cameleon on August 02, 2016, 12:19:23 PM
 ;D


I guess there is not many players able to snatch AT-W's spawns...

LOL
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: drj on August 13, 2016, 05:26:50 PM
your players don't show red and they in the war, filth as always and your first to complain.



Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: occuli imperator on August 13, 2016, 05:32:03 PM
hes green because is a bud of yours...
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on November 04, 2016, 11:16:52 PM
well its been a while since i have updated my progress.

My main Planet has the following
Hydro Mine 60
Shipyard 45
Research 51
HS 49
Foundry 41

my support planets all have
research 39
Foundry 28

on my main planet ill do one more round of upgrading the research before focusing on my support planets again. With the lv54 research and max out androids, i should have the 75% for upgrading faster.
Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on November 06, 2016, 07:37:06 AM
Hi, farsan,

That's a nice central lab you have, indeed!  I would have done it a bit differently -- raise up all the labs at a more uniform pace. 

As you know, each time you improve a lab, you spend 2x what you did for the previous level.  So, assuming that the labs all started at the same level, raising up that main lab 3 levels significantly exceeds the costs of raising up all the other labs a level.  If you spread the costs around and raise the labs up at about the same rate, you increase the effective lab level by around 7 labs, vs. the 3-lab increase you get by focusing on the central lab. 

The relative benefit gets even more lopsided, the farther ahead of the "pack" you push up that central lab.  For example, if you push up that central lab 6 levels, that is 63x the cost of that first lab upgrade.  If you bring up the labs uniformly, you can do the following:

Raise all 9 labs up the first level (for a cost of 9x first-level costs)
Raise all 9 labs up the second level (for a cost of 18x first-level costs)
Raise all 9 labs up the third level (for a cost of 36x first-level costs)

And, if push that central lab up 9 levels ahead of the pack, that is 511x times the cost of that initial lab upgrade.  So, continuing from where we left off, you can:

Raise all 9 labs up the 4th level (for a cost of 72x first level costs)
Raise all 9 labs up the 5th levels (for a cost of 144x first level costs) -- total so far of 279x of first-level costs)
Raise up 7 labs to the 6th level (for a cost of 7 x 32 = 214x first-level costs) -- total so far of 493x of first-level costs.

So, you end up with an increase in effective lab level of 52, vs. an increase in 9, and you forgo only one opportunity to put a Basic Android into your main lab.

Title: Re: the others things in the game
Post by: farsan300 on November 08, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
You make a great point Admiral. As of right now i am upgrading the research labs and foundries on my support planets. I just would like to add that you may want to add in the cost of upgrading the foundry into the equation cause the build time also double each time you upgrade a lab.