Starfleet Commander Forum

Starfleet Commander => Extreme Universe 2 => Topic started by: CoolHand on September 29, 2013, 04:47:20 PM

Title: Some Thoughts
Post by: CoolHand on September 29, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
I've been playing this uni and have played in others for years. In the earlier days you had to be creative, you had to use some strategy, take some chances, use your brain. It was fun stalking other players, finding weakness's and blowing them up!

When moons were added I saw that as a good thing. It enhanced the hunting of "live" players and some epic battles ensued. Again you had to use some skill and strategy to lock and blow up that target.

You created the WAR option among alliances which was a good thing but of course was misused. So you took away the benefits of being in a war with another alliance. That option is no longer worth participating in.

When NPC's were added it was sort of a good thing. It allowed players to gain resources and build! That was good. Allowing DSP to be included was bad. We have no idea who is skilled at hitting "live" players anymore. Now the leader board is massively skewed by NPC hunters and of course overall rank is affected as well. NPC's are also immune from oracle's which is another bad thing. Hunt them from your moon and your safe and as long as you f/s properly you will survive. So now all these uni's are a version of Farmville. No reason for most to hunt "live" players anymore.

Then recently you added P markers again. Now players hide behind P when unloading their hephs to their planets. Or go P to protect their overnight builds. Again you took away the opportunity to hit "live" players.

I totally understand that you're in the business to make money. There has to be a return on your investment's. BUT your recent business decisions over the last year or so have totally taken away from what your original purpose of these games was. To me that was dominate the universe by using strategy and skill  blowing up live targets. A war game.

Now you have many disgruntled, bored players and over the last year you have lost many skilled players and you keep creating other uni's instead of enhancing the ones you currently have to keep you customer base.

So my question to you is...what are your plans to retain your current customer base in the existing uni's and do you have any plans to enhance any of the existing uni's. Sorry but I don't want the answer to be "check out the new game we are currently developing". I don't care about that and i'm sure most other don't either.

Here is my suggestion for an enhancement........

Allow NPC's of a certain RSP level to be seen by oracle.

Here's your business case for it

1. It will increase the amount of targets available to your players. It will add "live" targets in the game again. Players will still need hydro and your store business will increase selling make more money.

2. Limiting the RSP level for the oracle will enable lower rank players to build up without worry of losing their fleet. Eventually they will move into hitting the larger NPC's and again your store will benefit

3. Most importantly players will need to use some skill, use their brains again. It will be fun to play again. Your customers will be happy. Your customer base will not decrease and will probably increase which means more business for your store.

Ok i've rambled enough and constructive comments from players would be appreciated and of course a comment from BFG would also be appreciated.

BFG if all you are going to say is "check out the new uni coming" then don't comment at all, this is the extr2 forum not your news forum.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: kru on September 29, 2013, 05:18:30 PM
the only real problem i see with any level of NPC being oraclable is that the players who can be oracled will simply no longer attack npcs (perhaps your underlying intention), but instead they will revert back to smashing the smaller players..

A good business cannot be self sustaining with 1 or 2 dozen customers, who, with lapsing numbers will actually spend less and less (this is testiment in many games).

You are correct with what your saying though, too much effort was placed on SDE when BFG went into partnership with syfy to create those games, in turn starfleet (the once pride of BFG) was used as a guinne pig game to ensure everything ran much more smoothly with SDE and SDE Nova......afterall, you don't want to make yourself look incompetent in that respect.....

This of course continues with BFG lacing empasis on the 'new' game and only really maintaining the older, dried out SFCO games
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: new starr federation on September 29, 2013, 05:33:13 PM
BFG probably realized that they lose costumers when they lose their fleets to hunters like they decided giving us targets that wont throw a fit and quit was a great idea..not all quit but alot why would they wanna promote those losing fleets..
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Boris Alden on September 29, 2013, 09:21:24 PM
All I can say is your low ranks that I can see from my moon would likely lose fleets. 

Grated it would add more for me and give me sport.

For now I am setting certain goals and trying to achieve those without attacking low ranks.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Vastet on September 29, 2013, 09:40:09 PM
I agree with most everything. Not sure about Oracles on NPCs, but then I don't like NPCs at all really. I think the best use of NPCs would be to have them only available to people with low fleet counts so that they could help speed up rebuilds after getting blown up. In order to prevent people from just having low fleet to take advantage of it there are different things you could do. Limit attacks or limit the amount of res you can get from them or something.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: CoolHand on September 30, 2013, 12:03:28 AM
I guess the poiint I'm trying to make is that the game is boring hitting NPC's and something needs to be done to create some excitement. NPC's are a free ride and if they become subject to the oracle then some skill would need to be involved to take them out. Dust off the heph and travel. Sure I would be worried about the few players who could take me out but with skill the odds would be in my favor.  Think of this scenario, I attack an NPC 10 systems from me, New Star see's this and locks my return. He'll have to send a big chunk of his fodder to take me out on the return. I message Boris and Boris meets him on a GD, That would be an epic battle.

I'm not saying all NPC's be subject to oracle, just the ones over a certain RSP level
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: new starr federation on September 30, 2013, 02:09:13 AM
nice hypothetical battle scenario..but also players would be able to steal ppls debris left and right..would make it much funner ive always said but they have no plans on making any changes Matt has said before..

yes making em scannable is an old idea that should be reconsidered in my opinion..maybe we should try to get a vote going..then maybe they would consider it..
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Matt H on September 30, 2013, 12:49:58 PM
One of our developers recently posted to a thread on Facebook expressing similar concerns.

I doubt commenting on any of this will help at all, but I'll take a futile stab: There isn't a way to promote SFC anymore. Financially, it does not work. Purchasing ads to drive traffic to the games costs money, and the users we get from it do not spend enough money to even pay for the ads. That means that we would just go out of business running SFC ads.

The reason we build new Uni's is because they do draw users, albeit ones that have played our games before for the most part, and the response is generally quite positive despite the fact that some of you do not approve. We don't advertise in these new Uni's either...they grow from announcing them to all of our current players, which is free. They are built with different rules that often come directly from our players.

You say we are only concerned with lining our pockets, but we aren't exactly rolling in it out here. We are working hard to keep our business going and we do that because we like what we do, not because we all drive Ferrari's.

We would love to be able to add users to SFCO and get a return on that investment sufficient to be able to continue to do it. If we thought, even for a minute, that this would be possible to do, we would do that. If we seen signs that the climate has changed, we will do that.

I hope that somehow, this at least clears up the why. You all may want something different, but we aren't a bunch of money grubbing trolls.

Developing just because player 1 wants this, and player 2 wants this, and player 3 wants that, and player 4 wants some other that, only leads to us closing every game as we upset everyone. We continue to maintain and update all of our games, but changing the rules midstream on players that are already playing by a set of rules that they like and are accustomed too, is something that we're not highly inclined to do.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: kru on September 30, 2013, 01:13:44 PM
Thats an interesting read matt thanks,

However, something i would like to comment, add to and suggest is this:

I understand the principles of releasing new unis, in that it gets new users and old ones, however, you and your team refer to a financial viability in regards to the most precious asset, being the developrs time etc... Therefore, perhaps some feedback on why you insist on releasing a new uni every 6 months?

Surely, this creates financial instability as you have yet to release a uni which hasn't been changed to an unrecognisable stance and which hasn't caused major problems!

For example, all the page freezes (costing developer time) game crashes, problamatic algorithms etc etc (the list could go on)

Would it not therefore be more finacially viable to reduce the numbers of unis released over time, but instead simply release one every 12 months, which is more highly stable, less problamatic and meets the dreams of wishes of everyone?

Obviuously, the more unis you release, the more time has to be spent somewhere in running, maintaining and improving all those games, i mean look how well mafia boss did (sarcasm)..

I think as users of your gamnes we know and understand that the cost of advertising is pretty high simply because of all your games, you can't advertise all of your games, so how about you simply advertise yourself,(now stick with me)

Advertise yourself as one game ie 'stafleet commander', which when clicked takes you to a 'setup' screen, which, from your own site, advertises all of your games, promotes each ones unique qualities and abilities (such as the differing ships, buildings, mine productions, speeds etc etc) thus allowing a potential customer to pick which one suits them...... i mean think on it, you go to a resturaunt and you would expect to see a menu wouldn't you?  i mean they don't give you a single piece of paper listing everything individually do they?  why should the way you promote your games be any different?

In other words, the game advert link takes you to your own website with a list of the stafleet games...... hey, maybe they might even sign up for more than just one game.

Obviously, the freebe way of advertising is via word of mouth, and to be fair, BFG have to see and respect where the users are coming from, in that every 6 months you guys release a new uni, diluting existing games, (previously) failing to introduce anything which is 'ground breaking' or significantly different from the previous......

Therefore, many of your users right are simply 'content' to play their own games and are not spreading the game like they once did..

I would hope (even if they the above sounds stupid) you can pick apart what im getting at
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: kru on September 30, 2013, 01:21:12 PM
oh, and another good idea would be to start sending emails out to existing and previously existing email registered users upto 2 weeks before a new uni is released (not on the day of release or day after)..

Perhaps offer some kind of bonus for email accounts which re-register to the new game (i'm pretty sure you could determine which email accounts have been dormant for a set period of time on your games)  You privacy policy allows you to keep hold of all registered email accounts, so it is a possibility.

The bonus could be x2 credits on valid sign up, a months worth of geo, spy or something of benefit ( even a months worth of play is a months worth of potential sales)
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: new starr federation on September 30, 2013, 02:17:41 PM
I must admit I like Kru suggestion Matt about the page of unis with details of each to choose from..might also consider a quick start up pack:

such as:

nine 300 field planets with basic infrastructure.


Ore mine-25
Cry mine- 25
Hyd mine- 25
Solar A.- 25
Nuke P.-15
Research L.-15
Mis Silo-8
O warehouse-10
C warehouse-10
H warehouse-10


Warp Gate-1
Lunar Dock-1

Pre built Fleet:

Shadow: x1
Hermes: x1000
Artemis: x5000
Atlas: x5000
Apollo: x5000
Zagreus: x5000
Charon: x20
Hercules: x5000
Dionysus: x5000
Poseidon: x5000
Carmanor: x5000
Athena: x5000
Ares: x5000
Hades: x5000
Prometheus: x5000
Zeus: x500
Hephaestus: x1

Total ships-61522

* Laser Tech: 14
* Armor Tech: 14
* Weapons Tech: 14
* Shield Tech: 14
* Particle Tech: 10
* Jet Drive: 14
* A.I. Tech: 14
* Energy Tech: 10
* Espionage Tech: 14
* Pulse Drive: 14
* Plasma Tech: 9
* FTL Tech: 9
* Expedition Tech: 8
* Warp Drive: 10
* Advanced Research Communication Network: 7

Resources on each planet:



Missile: x2000
Laser: x1500
Pulse: x500
Particle: x250
Anti-Ballistic: x20
Decoy: x1
Interplanetary: x10
Gauss: x100
Large Decoy: x1
Plasma: x50

Total defenses-39600

All planets in one pre selected system and 8 free planet moves.


by doing this you could get players to restart playing the game or entering into other universes.

btw these numbers are very small in uni2x equal to about a rank 500 player of 1000  total player accounts.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: CoolHand on September 30, 2013, 05:26:54 PM
So the answer plans in the works to enhance, help maintain/increase the existing customer base in this or any other uni because it's a waste of time and money for BFG UNLESS we as player's do the work to create a viable business case for you to think about for your games.

Your words Matt, not mine
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Vastet on September 30, 2013, 06:10:21 PM
Actually fixing problems tends to work better than advertising a broken product. A lot of people have quit because they got fleeted or bored, but a lot more have quit because BFG rarely listens to complaints anymore unless it's an in-progress server issue, and doesn't bother fixing things that have been pointed out for years. Server lag for one.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Matt H on October 03, 2013, 02:01:30 AM
So the answer plans in the works to enhance, help maintain/increase the existing customer base in this or any other uni because it's a waste of time and money for BFG UNLESS we as player's do the work to create a viable business case for you to think about for your games.

Your words Matt, not mine

This isn't an accurate summation at all. We continue to support and maintain all of our Universes. However, it's not financially viable for us to buy ads for older Universes at this time.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: WGW on October 03, 2013, 02:55:43 AM
They dont need ads .. they need FEATURES.

Since NPC are now in every uni - put thans in them as well.
Reduce build times
Increase speeds by say 25% (build, ship travel.. everything)
Reduce Hydro costs by 40%
Give new players 100k credits (you know - give em the first crack rock for free!)
Eliminate the ihop attack option for moving planets near inactives
Introduce a all unis new player setup similar to what is mentioned here.

None of these suggestions are serious coding issues, so your investment is minimal at best, you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Learn from companies like Toyota, who realized a long time ago word of mouth is the smartest advertisement you can get.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: phatboy83 on October 03, 2013, 05:25:16 AM
I can see what you lot are trying to do but there's no point BFG don't care what we want.
Me, Purefilth and a few others have been suggesting thing's to matt about conquest on the starfleet addict page on facebook and he basically told us there's no point as there releasing a new uni soon.
Personal I'm going to leave both x2 and conquest come the new year and go back to my xbox. I put about $20 month on theses games but there now starting to bore me.

I know I left this uni about a month ago and came back but when I leave again it will be for good.
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: kru on October 03, 2013, 11:36:09 AM
truth is, i have had an active bug report filed with BFG from their newest universe conquest for coming upto a week now, see my post about greyed out NPCs..

Of course, i have yet to have any feedback from that, or in fact any information in regards to this, apart from Matt telling me at least 30% of all NPCs should be attackable by me given my rank.....

Now, if they haven't fixed this bug and resolved that issue in their newest, money making game what odds do you seriously exoect to see anything improved/changed/enhanced in the older ones??

I have been p mode for 5 days, and will most likely be staying p mode now until BFG updates me/us on the problem....

Don't forget though seems to be legit for customer service to approach you in their response as though your thick or dense.......obviously in p mode i can't attack anything (unless i wish to break p mode) but it should light up anything that i can attack, such as players, territories and NPCs.....

in summary, whilst they maintian the games (preventing them from crashing, and fxing them when they do) all other bets are off....

I have read statements from Matt on these forums pointing fingers at the quality of servicve from 'other' companies, well, whilst their CS may not be as good, you can bet your ass if there is a bug report from one of the gamers who have an account it would be fixed/resolved pronto
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Pantin on October 03, 2013, 04:58:54 PM
Give new players 100k credits (you know - give em the first crack rock for free!)

Can't you do that on your own?
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Vastet on October 03, 2013, 06:10:41 PM
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: CoolHand on October 05, 2013, 07:13:12 AM
This isn't an accurate summation at all. We continue to support and maintain all of our Universes. However, it's not financially viable for us to buy ads for older Universes at this time.

Matt your original post basically said that but now that it's been edited it no longer says that. My whole point to all this is that the game is boring and you guys made it that way with all the recent changes over the year. All we want and it's been said by many, is something to be done to make it worthwhile again. This is supposed to be a war game not a space version of Farmville. You basically said in your original post BFG wasn't interested in doing anything to existing uni's because time and money will be spent on the new universe.

Oh and I never mentioned anything about purchasing ads, couldn't care less about that
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Ice queen on October 17, 2013, 02:37:22 PM
I think if you gave 2 planet moves to everyone ..that would shake things up ???
Title: Re: Some Thoughts
Post by: Redfrog on November 15, 2013, 09:06:58 PM
2 Suggestions:

Very advanced starting positions to new players in the older universes.  About the midpoint of RSP adjusting over time.  One good developed planet, ships and good tech.   

Very rich NPC's with light defenses and short lifespans of 3 hours+-.  Zeus take 3.5 hours+- to travel one sector.  Ships under 30 minutes.     This would provide great targets for ships etc.