Starfleet Commander Forum

Starfleet Commander => Original Universe => Topic started by: REMBROND on January 02, 2015, 06:28:46 PM

Title: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: REMBROND on January 02, 2015, 06:28:46 PM
Anyone else notice that the NPC's are getting Zeus heavy?  I did attacks last night - all was well.  Went looking this morning and the Z-ball counts were much larger on the same kind of targets.   Makes these targets not profitable to hit anymore...
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: lazoputz on January 02, 2015, 06:32:48 PM
Well you wont find them to be static in their makeup; and certainly a change from last night til this morning isnt a sufficient indicator that your targets will remain zeese heavy. Personally, i have been finding a lot more midsized ships and defenses on the targets that I hit, making them less profitable, but certainly no cause for alarm. It simply requires a slight modification in fleet makeup.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Gypsyhunter88 on January 02, 2015, 10:39:38 PM
You know I'm always on and scanning laz... I've noticed a slight increase too,, guess bcz bfg has changed code so much,, that zeese hunting is becoming more popular... The more ppl build, the more it reflects.. Trust me I've noticed it a few weeks ago...
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Ubar Kai Baily on January 02, 2015, 11:05:03 PM
It's been going on for a while as far as I can see anyway, Zeus heavy like now, then defence heavy, then they get as you would expect them to be followed by a period of actually being quite easy before Zeus heavy again. Seems to take 3 or 4 weeks to do a cycle, just how they seem to appear to me.

I simply reduce NPC hits when they get hard and wait till they're worth hunting again.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 02, 2015, 11:34:59 PM
It seems to me that the compositions have more variety than they did in the past, for certain.  For example, I've seen self-spawns recently with just a few 10,000s Zs + 70B Apollos, and I've seen self-spawns with 12M Z's, 600M Proms, and only 5B or so Apollos.  The variety does make things a bit more interesting!
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: REMBROND on January 03, 2015, 01:48:52 AM
Well, I'm taking a break until they become reasonable again.  Makes no sense to attack the NPC when its for no gain....
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Laz Triton on January 03, 2015, 02:02:32 AM
Well, I'm taking a break until they become reasonable again.  Makes no sense to attack the NPC when its for no gain....

If your tired of n.p.c.'s try Live players after all this is a PnP game and not Farmsville.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: lazoputz on January 03, 2015, 02:13:51 AM
@Rembrond: are you certain you cant attack any npcs for profit? I find that hard to believe.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: REMBROND on January 03, 2015, 02:32:32 AM
@Lazoputz - NPCs I could hit yesterday with 7-10k proms lost, are now 35k+ prom losses....  When you look at the Resources left over from rebuilding the lost ships, almost everything else has to be traded to make hydro ( refuel & hydro for the ship rebuilds )    There isn't much left after that.   So, less profits, more trade merchant purchases plus more ships to rebuild.   Previously, I could make these hits and have something left over to convert into new ships or infastructure.   Its not the same today...Others in Based On have noticed the same thing today as well, its why I posted on the board.

I do look for non-npc targets also, however they are far and few to find.   The player base is shrinking...
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Praetorian Hawke on January 03, 2015, 03:18:37 AM
My biggest issues are that I used to be able to hit enough NPC's daily to cover my overnight FRS plus build new ships, not just those to recover my losses.  Mainly with Hades fleets.  I'd then use my Prom/Ares on Collossus and Colonies, eating the Hydro loss I knew I'd recover on other attacks for the massive DF payday.

Now Hades are horrendously unprofitable and Athena's, while more Hydo easy than Proms, really eat into any DF recovered.

Since the latest NPC change, I'm barely able to cover my nightly FRS and can't even consider building ships beyond just covering my losses.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: lazoputz on January 03, 2015, 02:38:50 PM
@Rembrond: Agreed, they have become less profitable over the last couple days (continuing into today, so far); but nevertheless, a profit still canbe made. Albeit not as nice as a few days ago. Perhaps its just a normal swing? We can only wait and see. Certainly my fleet growth has suffered lately due to the reduced returns on the hits after expenses are covered, which makes it even more improbable that one could overtake the top 2-5.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Toxic on January 03, 2015, 03:27:36 PM
cylces my friends ...everything comes and goes


if you are here long enough , you hear this complaint every few months when the zues count cycles higher than normal....


this is NOT a new problem, or a problem at all , except for a few dry days ....i have seen a return to normalcy with the spawns so far today :)

just launched on a real softie ,,,time to party


(http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/dance-party-hard/dance251.gif) (http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/)
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: lazoputz on January 03, 2015, 05:59:17 PM
Nice, Toxic. I have only found one worthy NPC so far today, and was probably a hangover from one of yesterday's spawns. On my second pass through now, maybe I will find something like your current target. If not, well I will just search again later tonight.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: lazoputz on January 03, 2015, 06:46:15 PM
A quick update on my observations: yup. the spike is over and the NPCs are back to "normal". At least, they are back to the way they were a few days ago.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: REMBROND on January 03, 2015, 09:41:28 PM
I'm sticking my head out to look again.  Will report back what I find..   :)
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Praetorian Hawke on January 03, 2015, 11:38:16 PM
I won't consider them "back to normal" until I can start using my Hades again on LEF and EF hits without sending proms along. 

Hopefully it's just a cycle.  Maybe I'm finally "big" enough in the game where I'm finally starting to see these kinds of things to where it really affects how I hunt.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Gypsyhunter88 on January 04, 2015, 03:00:21 AM
Lol   omg he said try finding a live target.... Now that's funny everybody is quitting I'm gaining rank and not even hitting targets... I see more inactives everyday... Seems like the only few left are the old farts that's put lots of money in game over the years and hate to let it go... No offense on the old farts.. Just a figure of speech  ;D
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 04, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
Gypsy,

That last post made me laugh :-)

I actually see a lot of enthusiasm in the players in my alliance.   I think that a good alliance makes a lot of difference.  The essence of this game, even for us older farts, still is the social aspects of SFC.  Being part of a good team gives a chance to learn, to share your triumphs and tragedies -- it's something of an online family.

Now, where was that-thar NPC that I was going to whack, sonny????  I'm gettin' a bit old-in-the-tooth and forgetful, you know!
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: sgt tj hooker on January 04, 2015, 01:01:22 PM
yes, for a few days it was a little thick. i hate to admit it, but i do like the variety.

i sent everything on one less than optimal hit like an frs and went out with my family.

i learned my daughter knows how to read now, my son can talk now, and my wife likes sex.

not a bad day for an old fart.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 04, 2015, 04:34:35 PM
It appears that some of these changes involve a creeping-up of the percentage of RSPs that are in defenses.  As you might recall, the NPC formulation is supposed to limit this to 40%.  Here's a target with 45% defenses. This **does** make a difference!

tj -- good that you discovered all those things about your family, particularly the spousal discovery :-)

To: Admiral T-Wayne
Date: 2015-01-04 16:12:01 UTC
Encounter Abandoned Colossus Platform [xx:xx:xxe] has:
RESOURCES:
* ore: 136,898,390,874 
* crystal: 340,846,976,849 
* hydrogen: 243,963,596,994 
================================
Total plunder: 360,854,482,358 (2886836 carm / 14434180 herc / 72170897 atlas)
DSP: 318,064,226,296 (9284351407 Dios / 37137405626 Zags)

SEEKERS'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 22,931,644,126
* Atlas Class Cargo: 35,911,800,406
* Apollo Class Fighter: 17,953,875,296
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 12,881,876
* Hercules Class Cargo: 92,722,528
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 45,580,225
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 447,050,246
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 245,717,892
* Athena Class Battleship: 975,404,170
* Ares Class Bomber: 512,348,777
* Hades Class Battleship: 622,209,670
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 223,209,820
* Zeus Class: 4,783,963

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 257,295,951
* Laser Cannon: 25,504,992,188
* Pulse Cannon: 25,958,760,876
* Particle Cannon: 843,552,660
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 103,225,557
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 1,265,193,989

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 17
* Weapons Tech: 17
* Shield Tech: 17
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: REMBROND on January 04, 2015, 10:04:38 PM
Seems to be back to the way it was before.  I am now finding a varied mixture of targets to consider.  Have been able to make hits yesterday and today!
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: sgt tj hooker on January 05, 2015, 08:20:36 PM
<insert standard reply here>


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Re: The NPC's in SFCO are WHAT little froggies? :P
Reply #73 on: February 26, 2014, 05:50:48 PM

    Quote

NPCs have been a point of discussion in our office. I can't give a lot of details yet for the changes for NPCs because we need a developer to look at the feasibility of a few options, but it's likely we'll implement some code to limit the defense to ship RSP ratio.
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Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Ted Strangelove on January 05, 2015, 10:50:08 PM
The NPC's have been cycling like this since the last re-jig before xmas, it isn't really new.
The worst ones only usually last for 24 hours or so before the newer targets start to take on a different structure.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Mazian on January 05, 2015, 11:23:58 PM
I usually don't count something as a trend until I've given it the better part of a week and I'm hearing the same thing from buddies and mates.  Even so, it gets frustrating when trying to play FTF (Feed the Foundries).

I'd also like to see circumstances where each ship-type has fairly regular utility.  Perhaps that a wider variance in NPC composition, but which really might lead to too much unpredictability for fleet construction.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 07, 2015, 05:02:23 AM
Maz,

I have a very predictable fleet construction model:

30 Dios to 1 Zeus, Carms as necessary to haul stuff around.   Turn the crank, turn the crank, keep turning the bloody crank!

That is my standard fleet composition for hunting the ships + defenses targets.  Your mileage with the pure-ships targets might vary.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Mazian on January 08, 2015, 02:25:41 AM
Okay ... here's a trend I've noticed over the past several days.  Started a little before my last post in this thread.

Casualties projected from encounter targets are now generating double (or more) the casualties as targets of the same rank/colour would have before I noticed this apparent shift.

Where I might have lost 10k - 13k proms/ares before, I would now be losing 25k - 30k.  Ugh.  Hopefully just a blip, but ... at least at my level ... it's sapping some of my attack-resolve startch.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on January 08, 2015, 06:17:01 PM
The targets two days ago were amazingly difficult.  Yesterday was about what I consider to be "normal" for current conditions.  Today's targets are a mixed bag.  I've just hit one target that cost me a bit less than 27K Z's, and I'm running after another target at the moment that'll cost me over 1M Z's. As a fraction of the ships used in the attack, that's not **too** bad, but I wouldn't be too happy with a steady diet of such results.

We definitely have variety in target compositions these days!
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Mazian on January 12, 2015, 05:27:42 PM
Okay ... saw this today.  Certainly beyond me, but looking at the defenses relative to the fleet, this seems to be in the "where's the profit" category:


To: Michael "Mazian" Green
Date: 2015-01-12 16:52:58 UTC
Encounter Large Floating Colony ‎[17:204:3e] has:

RESOURCES:
* ore: 123,384,668
* crystal: 358,533,831
* hydrogen: 235,643,446

URCATH'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 1,153,805
* Atlas Class Cargo: 13,522,855
* Apollo Class Fighter: 4,462,675
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 63,826
* Hercules Class Cargo: 8,507
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 1,605,673
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 55,651
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 913,895
* Athena Class Battleship: 27,460
* Ares Class Bomber: 60,427
* Hades Class Battleship: 70,483
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 1,312,203
* Zeus Class: 22,304

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 57,798,269
* Laser Cannon: 3,858,490
* Pulse Cannon: 14,475,838
* Particle Cannon: 1,148,347
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 3,268,888
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 497,769

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 21
* Shield Tech: 21
* Weapons Tech: 21

Attack | Espionage | Harvest


The chance of your probes being intercepted is 100%
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Mazian on January 12, 2015, 05:37:13 PM
Here's another oddity.  So according to openparser Target Search:

Krug   Large Floating Colony   [17:269:9e]   01-10-2015 02:46:38 (time added).

I just probed the same location, same target description (note the time-stamp):


To: Michael "Mazian" Green
Date: 2015-01-12 17:10:59 UTC
Encounter Large Floating Colony ‎[17:269:9e] has:

RESOURCES:
* ore: 23,819,556
* crystal: 63,524,418
* hydrogen: 42,502,367

KRUG'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 183,216
* Atlas Class Cargo: 212,599
* Apollo Class Fighter: 527,619
* Zagreus Class Recycler: 16,674
* Hercules Class Cargo: 2,675
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 52,671
* Poseidon Class Cruiser: 4,631
* Carmanor Class Cargo: 31,948
* Athena Class Battleship: 4,724
* Ares Class Bomber: 18,791
* Hades Class Battleship: 22,502
* Prometheus Class Destroyer: 111,820
* Zeus Class: 254
... ... ... (etc) (no note about target packing bags for a trip to cuba)

This could imply a few things, including that the same location has had a new spawn of the same race and size-class or the target has been on-station for roughly 65+ hours.

According to the wiki, the target race and size has a lifespan of 16 - 40 hours.

So ... is it common/probable to have the exact target class spawn in the exact same location as a target that was eliminated/departed w/in 24-36 hours, is the wiki wrong, is the wiki lifespan just a common-expectation (but with the possibility of extreme statistical outliers), is there something wonky with openparser (encounter search), and/or is there something wonky about NPC lifespans going on?

Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: commander abаб on January 12, 2015, 06:12:43 PM
New spawn same location. 
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Ted Strangelove on January 12, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Likely new spawn same location. Also the first target you posted looks like it's been hit with a zeus fleet and just not finished off.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Stina Starr on January 13, 2015, 03:27:58 AM
I guess one of the benefits of being new to the game is that I don't have anything to compare anything to. As I grow, my target pool changes... If the NPC calculates as not profitable, I don't attack it. If I expect to lose more ships than I'm willing to, I ask for help or leave it for someone else. Maybe I'm fortunate, because of my locations, in relation to other players, because I'm having a blast blowing up NPCs, inactives, and live players.

I'd like to say "quit your bitchin'", but I can't relate, so I have to remove my feelings on the subject and simply say, "don't mess it up for the rest of us!" with love and respect.

Although, I'm pretty sure I'll likely benefit from any improvements made to the game just like everyone else. Ok...carry on!
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: commander corey london on February 05, 2015, 01:26:58 PM
NPCs today are worse than ever. So many Zs and defense fodder that after hydro recivery, they are mostly a net loss with anything but Zeus. One self-spawn that in the past might have cost 2% of the attack force, today costs 7 to 8% and is a loss of resources overall.

BFG needs to work on the script. It cycles around, but I hate wasted days.

Some of the top players griped that the so-called bunnies were too easy. Well now its the other way around. I can't grow with my fleet on the ground waiting for the future.

In the past, I was able to very profitably hit targets with a code of 175 or so, and occasionally even 125 to 150. Today, I found a target coded 345 that was a net LOSS of resources due to the fact that over half its RSP was in Zeus and it had 100 nillion fodder defenses.

Okay, rant over
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: ML1 on February 05, 2015, 09:47:16 PM
Agreed, I have had 3 hits today, all a loss in net RSP.

The choice today was to either take the loss or let my fleet sit there with their thumbs up their Prince.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Commander Kangar on February 05, 2015, 10:25:27 PM
In that case they should sit. What's the point of hitting an NPC if you don't net a profit?
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: sgt tj hooker on February 06, 2015, 05:57:07 AM
nasty hunting.

less people than ever.

i think you dont like me matt.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: ♰ArchAngel♰ on March 04, 2015, 01:34:26 AM
The npc's really stink. I'm just sitting here looking at npc's ranking #509-#510. Only found 1 npc worth anything but it's a nasty ugly with high defenses. My looses would be to high. Something gotta change. Maybe we should barrage BFG with game tickets demanding changes. Sorta along the lines like we all did not too long ago. It worked then, why not now?
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: Admiral T-Wayne on March 04, 2015, 03:10:43 AM
@ArchAngel,

Are you still using Proms/Ares fleets, or have you become a disciple of The Way of the Z?

Against the current ships + defenses NPCs, Z's are just about the only way to go.  My success during the past 9 months or so is directly related to my switching to Z-fleets.  I was the first of the very large players to make that move, thus the reason why I was able to get to where I am at the moment.

I understand that a number of you B.A.D. guys and gals recently have been bulking up your fleets with Z's.  Don't let 'em sit around!  Have 'em bashing NPCs as close to 24 hours a day as you can make it!
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: ♰ArchAngel♰ on March 14, 2015, 09:52:04 PM
Have no time to play with a Z fleet. Can't play from work so long attacks aren't gonna happen.

The npc's are getting crazy again with defenses. To the point were i'm considering a retirement from the game. BFG is to stupid to keep there clients happy and have proper customer service. So I see them doing nothing like always. They sit around with there thumb up there ass and collect whatever they can from credit sales.
Title: Re: 2015 NPC Changes
Post by: ML1 on March 15, 2015, 02:15:06 AM
LOL  What credit sales?

I've hit so few targets this week, I have only gone through 40,000 credits.

Before this past week, I was burning through them at about 160,000 to 200,000 per week and that's with level 28 Hydro storage.

My guess is several players that used to buy credits regularly, have or are, finding other sites to spend their money.

Hell, I bought 20.00 bucks worth almost 2 weeks ago, about ready to ask for a refund.