Starfleet Commander Forum

Starfleet Commander => Extreme Universe 2 => Topic started by: Tiberius on December 24, 2010, 06:59:05 AM

Title: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Tiberius on December 24, 2010, 06:59:05 AM
So how many false e-mails each do people have?  It looks like 60% of the players are dummy accounts used to collect the crew members.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: the enforcer on December 24, 2010, 11:56:34 AM
you are guessing at 60%??? that's it???

so if you look at the top 25 for crew points you will come up with 7662 divide by 3 = 2254 friends invited to play that set up accounts.

so at 60% 1532. on the leader board you can move from ranked 7900 to 3000 have less than 20 build points. so that is at least half.

there is somebody in our alliance that playing doing no missions with 1 colony still and is ranked under 2k.

i put that # at closer to 75%-80% are multi accounts and/or random facebook non-players.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Justin Coles 928543 on December 24, 2010, 12:12:37 PM
anybody else notice how the inactive planet are dissapearing already.... has only been about what 10 days????
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Q-ness on December 24, 2010, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: "Justin Coles 928543"
anybody else notice how the inactive planet are dissapearing already.... has only been about what 10 days????
Inactives are deleted after 1 day if they haven't built anything
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: JPhoenix on December 24, 2010, 05:06:14 PM
I had over 10 inactives across three systems and many of them had ore mines of 1 or 3 and crystal of 2, but after one day they have vanished? Did bullfrog just delete all accounts in one fell swoop? I was a little happy to have some inactives around me while I continue to build up infrastructure, though I am disappointed that even accounts that had mines 1, 1, and 0 were deleted too. Yet another reason to take a fun game and question whether it has a future....

JP
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: the enforcer on December 24, 2010, 05:54:52 PM
x2 will die faster than x1. even with improved mine output.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 24, 2010, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: "the enforcer"
x2 will die faster than x1. even with improved mine output.

didnt i said that before it was released? but i made one mistake: i was expecting 10k players in the first 1-2 weeks, but there were about 8.5k
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 24, 2010, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: "the enforcer"
you are guessing at 60%??? that's it???

there is somebody in our alliance that playing doing no missions with 1 colony still and is ranked under 2k.

only under 2k? he sucks :)
i have 1 planet, no ships, no missions, no crew, no droids, and only log in from time to time to spend the resourses. and im ranked under 600.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: the enforcer on December 24, 2010, 08:57:18 PM
he built like 10-15 atlases and got hit. at least he knows he sucks.  :P
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 25, 2010, 04:10:34 AM
Quote from: "the enforcer"
he built like 10-15 atlases and got hit. at least he knows he sucks.  :P
i got hit too :)
but i only had 1 atlas and 1 artemis :)
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: jester on December 25, 2010, 07:08:44 PM
BFG just put the accounts there to make it look like loads are playing
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 26, 2010, 04:16:13 AM
Quote from: "jester"
BFG just put the accounts there to make it look like loads are playing
i dont think they did that. if they were doing that, they would have kept the accounts, or kept adding new.
those accounts were only fake accounts of some people that are actually playing and created those for crew, or their friends. for example, i can say that about 250 of the account in SFC-E were mine :) (actually friends from facebook who only registered to give me one more crew member, but only 2-3 of them continued playing and the rest were deleted after few days).
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: renykeny on December 26, 2010, 06:18:19 AM
yup!...its not always a conspiracy!
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: andy nard1 on December 26, 2010, 06:52:14 AM
Why people is whining about false accounts or accounts of friends? Complain to BFG about such stupid rule that every friend invited is worth 25,000 credits (yes that's the price of a basic Android).
Their business model is flawed, to get people playing they are just twisting and distorting the game, there should be no reward for inviting friends, since has been proven over and over that are either fake accounts or people that will never play.
Is fair that players have thousands of crew points, BFG could fix it very easily, once a invited player goes poof...also the crew goes poof...or stop that BS of 4% extra production given for inviting ghosts to the game

End of rant
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: the enforcer on December 26, 2010, 09:25:03 AM
Quote from: "andy nard1"
Why people is whining about false accounts or accounts of friends? Complain to BFG about such stupid rule that every friend invited is worth 25,000 credits (yes that's the price of a basic Android).
Their business model is flawed, to get people playing they are just twisting and distorting the game, there should be no reward for inviting friends, since has been proven over and over that are either fake accounts or people that will never play.
Is fair that players have thousands of crew points, BFG could fix it very easily, once a invited player goes poof...also the crew goes poof...or stop that BS of 4% extra production given for inviting ghosts to the game

End of rant

+1
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 27, 2010, 09:25:48 PM
Quote from: "andy nard1"
Why people is whining about false accounts or accounts of friends? Complain to BFG about such stupid rule that every friend invited is worth 25,000 credits (yes that's the price of a basic Android).
Their business model is flawed, to get people playing they are just twisting and distorting the game, there should be no reward for inviting friends, since has been proven over and over that are either fake accounts or people that will never play.
Is fair that players have thousands of crew points, BFG could fix it very easily, once a invited player goes poof...also the crew goes poof...or stop that BS of 4% extra production given for inviting ghosts to the game

End of rant

-100

i disagree. this is used in almost all games i know about. you gain something from every friend you have invited, no matter if he stays or not. this is the best advertisement BFG (and all other game developers) gets for free. and even if only 1-2 of the friends i invited stay in the game, then it will be good for me, and BFG too - i get a fiend to play with, they get an active player and potential customer that will pay for credits, and he will probably invite another 200 people to be in his crew, and 1-2 of them will stay in the game, and they do the same again, and again, and again....
if you cant afford to pay for an android, they give you a chance to get that android for free, but they get potential active player  - its a win/win situation, so i dont see why it should be removed.
and i dont think anyone here was whining about false accounts? who did that? everyone just said that most of the accounts are false accounts, or accounts created by friends to help others, and this is not whinning, its just stating a fact. and it is a positive thing in the game.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 27, 2010, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: "the enforcer"
Quote from: "andy nard1"
Why people is whining about false accounts or accounts of friends? Complain to BFG about such stupid rule that every friend invited is worth 25,000 credits (yes that's the price of a basic Android).
Their business model is flawed, to get people playing they are just twisting and distorting the game, there should be no reward for inviting friends, since has been proven over and over that are either fake accounts or people that will never play.
Is fair that players have thousands of crew points, BFG could fix it very easily, once a invited player goes poof...also the crew goes poof...or stop that BS of 4% extra production given for inviting ghosts to the game

End of rant

+1

and -1000 for your +1 (see the explanation in the post above)
:)
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Zov on December 28, 2010, 01:40:35 AM
Because this is a strategy game, not a popularity contest. The top ranked players should be the best and most active players, not the ones that have the most friends to pester to join, devise schemes to do advertising, cheat, or drop hundreds of dollars to gain a huge, unfair advantage.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Victor Doom on December 28, 2010, 02:29:12 AM
:evil: A large army of human crew members gives players a HUGE advantage in production... it's how some of the top players get these huge mines/fleets right out of the starting gate.. An army of human workers gives you about a +40% advantage over those using regular droids in thier mines...
.
 Their are probably 1000's of ghost accounts that were created to fill the human worker coffers of our less then honest players out there..  
.
 +1000 to getting rid of human workers.. come up with something else to attract newer players...
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Victor Doom on December 28, 2010, 02:36:08 AM
:evil: Sidenote... if you want a good example of some of our less then honest players... look at the top 100 for crew points in Extreme uni 1...  :twisted:
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Tsza on December 28, 2010, 02:40:33 AM
Why not just make the Human Crew worth 2% just like driods, but can be used anywhere.  Still get the advertising, but not as much of an advantage for people with lots of them.  Not having to pay for them is the only advantage.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 28, 2010, 02:58:13 AM
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: A large army of human crew members gives players a HUGE advantage in production... it's how some of the top players get these huge mines/fleets right out of the starting gate.. An army of human workers gives you about a +40% advantage over those using regular droids in thier mines...
.
 Their are probably 1000's of ghost accounts that were created to fill the human worker coffers of our less then honest players out there..  
.
 +1000 to getting rid of human workers.. come up with something else to attract newer players...

40%? what did you had at maths at school? :)

it only gives 2% more than a droid. droid gives +2% on the base production, human +4%, which is +2+2, so it is less than 2% advantage over the droid bonus because it is counted on the base production. it gives about 19% more at level 27 mines, in the begining, the advantage is about 5-10% only.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 28, 2010, 03:03:19 AM
and on the side note, it gives some fair advantage to those that dont pay for the game, to get a free geologist by inviting people in the game. saying to remove the free extras in the game and leave those available with money gives a HUGE advantage to those that pay, and will leave only those who pay in the top 100 and make all the rest quit the game because they cant keep up.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 28, 2010, 03:10:44 AM
Quote from: "Tsza"
Why not just make the Human Crew worth 2% just like driods, but can be used anywhere.  Still get the advertising, but not as much of an advantage for people with lots of them.  Not having to pay for them is the only advantage.

note having to pay 3k ore and 1k crystal is the only advantage? is this really advantage, or a joke? :) do you think anyone will ever bother to invite people to get 3k ore and 1k crystal, even in the early stage of the game?
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Zov on December 28, 2010, 03:28:19 AM
Quote from: "Andrej Atanasoski"
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: A large army of human crew members gives players a HUGE advantage in production... it's how some of the top players get these huge mines/fleets right out of the starting gate.. An army of human workers gives you about a +40% advantage over those using regular droids in thier mines...
.
 Their are probably 1000's of ghost accounts that were created to fill the human worker coffers of our less then honest players out there..  
.
 +1000 to getting rid of human workers.. come up with something else to attract newer players...

40%? what did you had at maths at school? :)

it only gives 2% more than a droid. droid gives +2% on the base production, human +4%, which is +2+2, so it is less than 2% advantage over the droid bonus because it is counted on the base production. it gives about 19% more at level 27 mines, in the begining, the advantage is about 5-10% only.

It amuses me that you comment on his math then approximate an odd % for increases of 2%
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 28, 2010, 03:46:58 AM
Quote from: "Zov"
Quote from: "Andrej Atanasoski"
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: A large army of human crew members gives players a HUGE advantage in production... it's how some of the top players get these huge mines/fleets right out of the starting gate.. An army of human workers gives you about a +40% advantage over those using regular droids in thier mines...
.
 Their are probably 1000's of ghost accounts that were created to fill the human worker coffers of our less then honest players out there..  
.
 +1000 to getting rid of human workers.. come up with something else to attract newer players...

40%? what did you had at maths at school? :)

it only gives 2% more than a droid. droid gives +2% on the base production, human +4%, which is +2+2, so it is less than 2% advantage over the droid bonus because it is counted on the base production. it gives about 19% more at level 27 mines, in the begining, the advantage is about 5-10% only.

It amuses me that you comment on his math then approximate an odd % for increases of 2%

and whats wrong there? correct me if im wrong, but at level 27 mines (10 workers alowed), you get 20% base bonus from regular droids, so 120%. with humans, you get 140%. 140% compared to 120% is not 40% more, but its less than 20% advantage, so i just said 19% without going into details to get the correct numbers. on lower mine levels, you have less advantage, example: level 3 mine gives 100% resourses, level 3 with 2 droids gives 104%, level 3 with 2 humans gives 108%, which is less than 4% bonus over the droids.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Zov on December 28, 2010, 04:00:11 AM
Ah, yeah that's what I get for skimming. The way you worded it in context makes sense, sorry.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Zov on December 28, 2010, 04:02:42 AM
But eventually most people will get to 30+'s in uni2/x2, and ~20% on every mine permanently is huge..
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Aberrant72 on December 28, 2010, 06:15:58 AM
Yeah after I saw the wack load of inactives I shot my fleet out to be destroyed and called it a day. I went from 5K to 400 and in a few days,nice jump dropped down to the 30 rank area for DSP, all good but when the targets are sparse what's the point, ahh well..


 Cheers all..
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Victor Doom on December 28, 2010, 06:46:37 AM
Quote from: "Andrej Atanasoski"
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: A large army of human crew members gives players a HUGE advantage in production... it's how some of the top players get these huge mines/fleets right out of the starting gate.. An army of human workers gives you about a +40% advantage over those using regular droids in thier mines...
.
 Their are probably 1000's of ghost accounts that were created to fill the human worker coffers of our less then honest players out there..  
.
 +1000 to getting rid of human workers.. come up with something else to attract newer players...

40%? what did you had at maths at school? :)

it only gives 2% more than a droid. droid gives +2% on the base production, human +4%, which is +2+2, so it is less than 2% advantage over the droid bonus because it is counted on the base production. it gives about 19% more at level 27 mines, in the begining, the advantage is about 5-10% only.
.
 :twisted: I did a rough guesstimate in my head.. obviously the math wizards corrected me in this... even a 20% boost is a huge advantage, especially coupled with a geologist... I'm Going to use rough math again and say you use regular workers and produce 7 mil ore/3.5 mil cry/2 mil hydro per day... a 20% boost turns that to 8.4 mil ore/4.2mil cry/2.4 mil hydro per day... Over a period of time it's almost impossible to keep up with this kind of production... If it wasn't such an advantage the top 100 crew people wouldn't be doing it...
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on December 28, 2010, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
Quote from: "Andrej Atanasoski"
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: A large army of human crew members gives players a HUGE advantage in production... it's how some of the top players get these huge mines/fleets right out of the starting gate.. An army of human workers gives you about a +40% advantage over those using regular droids in thier mines...
.
 Their are probably 1000's of ghost accounts that were created to fill the human worker coffers of our less then honest players out there..  
.
 +1000 to getting rid of human workers.. come up with something else to attract newer players...

40%? what did you had at maths at school? :)

it only gives 2% more than a droid. droid gives +2% on the base production, human +4%, which is +2+2, so it is less than 2% advantage over the droid bonus because it is counted on the base production. it gives about 19% more at level 27 mines, in the begining, the advantage is about 5-10% only.
.
 :twisted: I did a rough guesstimate in my head.. obviously the math wizards corrected me in this... even a 20% boost is a huge advantage, especially coupled with a geologist... I'm Going to use rough math again and say you use regular workers and produce 7 mil ore/3.5 mil cry/2 mil hydro per day... a 20% boost turns that to 8.4 mil ore/4.2mil cry/2.4 mil hydro per day... Over a period of time it's almost impossible to keep up with this kind of production... If it wasn't such an advantage the top 100 crew people wouldn't be doing it...

it is an advantage, but its bigger advantage at higher levels, at the begining, its only a small percent. when your mines are at level 60-70, you can have 40% boost over the droids :)
and yes, it is worth, having humans in your mines at level 20 mines is same as if you have hired a geologist for free , more at higher levels. but those who pay will buy androids anyway, so this gives a chance to those who dont pay. and when the game goes to a level where people make 100-200-300mil DFs, do you really think this boost is that important?
and to everyone, dont forget this is a strategic game, so what more options you have, the more interesting it becomes.



ps. the math comment was a joke, dont take it personally, i know you said 40 without calculating :)
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: the enforcer on December 28, 2010, 07:44:38 PM
for me in xo the difference with geo between droids and androids is 234m/162m/89m in the 3 months.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Bleys on December 28, 2010, 09:54:46 PM
I dont think the incentive itself is the problem, I think the problem is BFGs inability to police it. I really think there are 100s of completely made up accounts created solely to get crew. Its a decent mechanic, and does probably bring in players, but its so easy to abuse, thats my issue anyway.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Aberrant72 on December 28, 2010, 10:09:34 PM
When BFG wonders why their games are declining than they will have an answer.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Phil Sutherland on December 28, 2010, 10:13:07 PM
ive given up on them. I cant even get them to do the VERY simple things like get me the mine formula.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Boris Alden on December 28, 2010, 11:55:56 PM
Do excuse me if I have missed something here...

I think I have read the whole forum post on this thread....

No one has come up with how....

The human crew aquired by people are not because they have 1000's of face book friends....

The have crew because they have put a link up and people click on it....  
This takes them to the facebook join page and if the person clicks next an account is created and you have one human crew.

Some people in India - Khzakstan etc may not read English well and may not create a unique name.

Some of these people will continue to play, and of course more will let the account go as they are bored.

So we have players advetising the game for BFG which gets those players human crew and better mine out put.

It is not because they have spent hours trying to make fake accounts and join as their own crew......

I was very suspicious at the start but know that Joshua Clavert and the others above me have aqiuired their crew in a legitimate fashion.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Bleys on December 29, 2010, 02:44:26 AM
I wont refute that many play fair. But many dont, and there is no real mechanism to catch them.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Bravicus on December 29, 2010, 02:52:37 AM
A while back I ticketed BFG and suggested that upon the removal of the referred player from the database (35 days of inactivity or 7 days if they never built anything) that the human worker looses it's 4% bump of production and is lowered to a 2% bump.  This would remove a great deal of the incentive to create fake accounts.

Of course this was back in june and it remains the same so...
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Bleys on December 29, 2010, 04:10:46 AM
Quote from: "Bravicus"
A while back I ticketed BFG and suggested that upon the removal of the referred player from the database (35 days of inactivity or 7 days if they never built anything) that the human worker looses it's 4% bump of production and is lowered to a 2% bump.  This would remove a great deal of the incentive to create fake accounts.

Of course this was back in june and it remains the same so...
Good idea.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Boris Alden on December 29, 2010, 07:41:28 AM
Yes but we are not saying people are creating fake accounts we are saying they are ADVERTISING....

That does not make a fake account....

How many web games have you tried and give up because it was not very good.....

Remember this comes from OGame and on there they have many Universes and it has been going longer.....
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Bleys on December 29, 2010, 03:35:14 PM
Are you saying people AREN'T making fake accounts Boris?

I realize that the recruitment feature does indeed help spread the word of the game, but my point is that its an abuseable mechanic, thats all. I am quite sure that many players are using it properly and what not, trying to get as many new players to join as possible, but the fake-account problem DOES exist. Figure out a way to diminish the impact of such cheating and I wont say another word.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Boris Alden on December 29, 2010, 08:22:45 PM
The fact that fake accounts may have been created is also a sad fact.

But little we can do until they are deleted.

Out of our hands really...
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: darkset on December 29, 2010, 11:13:02 PM
from the looks of it so far x2 is going to go the way of mafia boss and slowly die out
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Aberrant72 on December 30, 2010, 05:43:51 AM
Darkset I agree with 100% until BFG comes up with a better way to attract new players than I don't see why X2 will work if there are simply no players. Like I previously stated, I woke up one day and all I saw was a slew of inactives and I could read the writing on the wall, it already looked like Original does now. Sad but it's the truth well at least my perception of what I think is truth..


 Cheers!
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Andrej Atanasoski on January 01, 2011, 08:10:35 PM
about the fake accounts... well, if someone can make 500 fake accounts, then good for him. it takes a lot effort, and its very boring, and i would never do that (unless there is some script that would create accounts for you, but i doubt it). and the ones who had the nerves and time to do this , then they deserve that crew. and all those whining about that, go and try to create 500 fake accounts. i bet you will get bored at 10. whining about someone making fake accounts is like whinin why someone made a huge progress at the beggining of the game because he was running missions every 2 minutes.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Sid82 on January 01, 2011, 09:10:49 PM
Quote from: "Andrej Atanasoski"
about the fake accounts... well, if someone can make 500 fake accounts, then good for him. it takes a lot effort, and its very boring, and i would never do that (unless there is some script that would create accounts for you, but i doubt it). and the ones who had the nerves and time to do this , then they deserve that crew. and all those whining about that, go and try to create 500 fake accounts. i bet you will get bored at 10. whining about someone making fake accounts is like whinin why someone made a huge progress at the beggining of the game because he was running missions every 2 minutes.

except running missions is not illegal, multi accounting is
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: the enforcer on January 01, 2011, 09:31:54 PM
Quote from: "Andrej Atanasoski"
about the fake accounts... well, if someone can make 500 fake accounts, then good for him. it takes a lot effort, and its very boring, and i would never do that (unless there is some script that would create accounts for you, but i doubt it). and the ones who had the nerves and time to do this , then they deserve that crew. and all those whining about that, go and try to create 500 fake accounts. i bet you will get bored at 10. whining about someone making fake accounts is like whinin why someone made a huge progress at the beggining of the game because he was running missions every 2 minutes.

and after 2 weeks a full crew of droids is worth more than a constant 24h worth of 2 min clicking and it lasts forever. in fact they would be better off spending that time on crew instead of wasting it on missions minus the fact that makes them cheating scum.
Title: Re: Inactives everywhere
Post by: Bleys on January 02, 2011, 12:45:48 AM
Consistent active play is better than crew or missions. First month means almost nothing, in fact, starting later can actually allow you to grow faster and catch right up, farming inactives that werent available to that "first week" crowd.