Starfleet Commander Forum

Starfleet Commander => Strategy => Topic started by: Matt on September 25, 2009, 09:35:58 PM

Title: Strategy Guide
Post by: Matt on September 25, 2009, 09:35:58 PM
So it's now been 3 weeks since the reset and we're seeing some definite trends emerge. A few players are separating themselves from the pack, and we've checked out some data to see why. We thought it might be the best for the game if we gave everyone some pointers, so here's a detailed strategy guide based on our observations both from playing the game and checking up on the data generated by top players. I'll go through these in rough order of importance.

Please note that for the purposes of this strategy when I refer to points I will use Resources Spent points, because that is the best measure of progress in Starfleet Commander. Points for crew or destroyed ships are great, but they really don't help you progress through the game that much other than by generating resources which you then spend.

1. Learn to Fleetsave! I can't stress this enough. If you do not protect your fleet, you will lose it, period. It's just a matter of time. You will be attacked by someone bigger. We get emails every day from a player who got their entire fleet destroyed by someone higher up the chain than them. Oddly many of those emails come from someone who destroyed someone else the day before. You would think they would know better, but they don't.

If you're not the biggest or maybe second biggest fleet in the universe, your fleet is in danger of being destroyed. Thanks to Dionysus Class Recyclers it can be profitable to do an attack even if you lose dozens of small ships (fodder) so a fleet might not have to be much bigger than yours to hit you profitably, especially on a world with decent resources.

If you lost your fleet, it's because you left it parked somewhere, usually for at least the 1-2 hours it took the bigger fish to find it and then attack, often for 8 or more hours at a time. This is easy to prevent and if you don't, losing it is as certain as death and taxes. If you're leading an alliance, make sure your newer members know how to do this.

In the earliest part of the game you've got newbie protection, so you don't need to worry about fleet saving until after 100 points. But as soon as you cross that marker, there will be people looking for you. You've still got newbie protection from people over 5 times your points, so you might not start getting attacks for awhile but you should be prepared. It won't be too long.  

When ships are in transit in Starfleet they cannot be attacked. So to save your fleet, all you have to do is send them on a mission. In the earliest days this may mean you send them on an empty transport mission to a planet nearby at reduced speed. For instance if your home world is at the coordinates 1:1:1, you might send them to transport 0 resources to 1:2:1 at 30% speed before you go to bed. Remember transports are a round trip, so if the fleet time says 4 hours, that means 4 hours each way (8 hours total). So if you go to bed at midnight and send your fleet on a 4 hour transport nobody will know where it is until at least 8 a.m. Your fleet is safe while you sleep.

Once you unlock the Dionysus Class recycler, you've got an even better method of fleet saving: the harvest mission. This is better because you can load your fleet up with cargo which will then be deposited back on the world at the end of the mission, plus any debris you managed to pick up. That way you can save not only your fleet but your resources.

2. Build Mines. Mines have a huge ROI early. Eventually they may take days to pay for themselves, but up to level 15 or so for ore (slightly less for crystal and hydrogen) they pay for themselves in under 1 day. Early levels pay for themselves in a matter of minutes or hours. Inviting Crew and then assigning them to your mines gets you extra resources and can really accelerate production as well.

3. Tech up. AI tech is extremely valuable because it lets you run missions. Poseidon Class is extremely valuable because it lets you run better missions, and can help in raiding players who have lots of Artemis Class or Missile Turrets. The Dionysus Class mission is great for when you're not going to be online for a bit, and the ship itself is great for fleet saving. So get those things unlocked as early as possible.

4. Build colonies quickly. 10 out of the top 10 players have the full 8. In fact if you look at the order of the top 10, it's almost as the same as the order in which they got to all 8 colonies. Build mines on them as per #2.

You want to build up the colonies quickly too, starting with the one with the lowest mine levels (since lower mines have higher ROI). Overnight while fleet saving, allocate your resources to the planets with the lowest level mines, or deploy your ships there to run missions the following day. If you deploy all of your ships and resources to the most least developed colony every night, you'll be able to build it up faster, and you won't have to worry much about attacks since all of your stuff will be in transit and then used immediately.

5. Raid inactive players. A lot of times you can get far more resources per hour by sending your empty cargos at players who are inactive (have an "i" by their name in the Galaxy view) or are just not online and didn't properly fleet/resource save than running a mission. Do a little espionage, find people with stockpiles, and hit them.

6. Run missions as much as possible. This is obvious, but I put it at #6 because it's not nearly as important as most people think. Of the top 10, the #1 player has only run the 6th most missions, and the #2 player has run the 7th most. They are at the top because they built mines and colonies, and teched up to Poseidon and high AI levels early. Still, an idle fleet isn't earning you anything, so send it out.

7. Scale your defenses along with your planet. In the early days, a lot of people put way too many resources into defense. This is because they perhaps think building defense is a substitution for fleet saving, but unless you're in the top few players it is not, so there isn't much point in building lots of easily destroyed missile turrets.
As long as you're fleet saving when you're not online and building when you are, you'll never have anything for people to attack, so people generally won't attack you. Put your resources into research, mines, ships, and colonizing instead.

Well that's what we've got so far. I'll add more here as I think of it.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: The ZPM on September 25, 2009, 09:49:09 PM
May I add:

8. Be civil, even if you're really, really mad that someone attacked you.  After all, that's the point of the game!  If you are rude or start sending obscenities to your attacker, you just made yourself a target again.  You don't know when, and you don't know where, but pissing someone off means they might even attack you when it is not profitable.  They might even send in 4 or 5 consecutive waves of unprofitable attacks to take down your defenses, for no other reason than you were rude.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Matt on September 25, 2009, 10:56:18 PM
Good point.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: President Penny on September 28, 2009, 06:13:15 PM
Great guide!  I'm trying to compare what I'm doing to what I can do to improve.  Also on the being civil note, instead of a message back telling them off, sometimes asking for peace works out.  Right after diplomacy started I got hit over and over again all in one night.  Never been attacked before and lost everything, went from a ranking of 80 or under to about 160.  Double ouch.  Activated diplomacy and asked the one attacker who had another wave coming up for some peace and he said sure.  Act civil and others can act that way as well.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dexxter on September 30, 2009, 06:08:10 PM
Good ratio to build mines is:
Ore :3
Crystal :2
Hydrogen: 1

To make a good fleet:
Ore :4
Crystal :2
Hydrogen :1

Theres gonna be always missing incredients, but everything needs to be build on ores, its also vital to build as many ore mines and crystal mines at start to quarantee faster start. If theres also some alliances in the galaxy, uniting yourself with em gives you possibilities: they can trade materials with you and bigger alliance members can retaliate your losses. Knowing wich players have fleets gives oppoturnity to look for potential targets.

Remember, you kill them before they grow too big.
Only way to kill a big fish? co-operated attack from all alliance members, timed to perfection.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dexxter on October 03, 2009, 11:23:32 PM

Sender: A.I Counter Intelliance Research tactical droid: program 013-D
Topic: Counter Stradegy Tips:
Section: Downright Dirty tricks.


Hypersticial Situation:
-- Scans reveal incoming hostiles at deepspace scanners.
-- Estimated arrival: Immediate
-- Defence capability: None, seeking possibility to build adugate defence: not possible within given time parameters
-- Estimated loss of valuables: Intolerable, not adviced
-- Deduction: Current situation not acceptable within loss parameters.
-- Consideration: Seeking alternative means to conserve planetary organic populations needs and future planetary defence capabilities.

--// Running program 013-D //-- (sending copy to planetary goverment)
--//Running sub program translator-115 for clearer instructions, mode: lamemans terms
 
1. To get back to your feet faster, YOU MUST FLEET SAVE! this means sending your fleets with everything you can haul with you, but if that means you will loose more than you can save, theres the downright dirty trick. (see section 2)
2. Leave nothing behind, if you cant have it, neither can the other guy. First you use all your materials you can use on defence items, suchs as laser turrets and missle turrets, then the rest on the technology, maybe building upgrade. Everything you can cancel after, means you have depositted those valuables to things, you can gain some back after the raid is complete.
3. Shut down systems: When you set operations on mines to 0, the raider has even less to loot upon.

--//continuing parameters as reversed//-- (suggestion added for possible future assaults)
How to defend against these nasty and dirty tricks? Simple, send a espionage probe right before the fleet arrives. Thus you have time to continue attack, or pull back before the unneccessary threat of going to raid, knowing theres opposition to crush as debree. However now you will know, theres nobodys home, the house is cleared and you will only meet artillery pounding your forces (you prob will loose only some cargo ships, wich costs more to build than to collect from debree), its actually more profitable to limb back home.

-- --|| End of transmission|| -- --
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Riker on October 12, 2009, 02:24:40 PM
Right now there are lots of inactives out there.  They are very productive, more so than running missions.

Another thing is find targets you can attack and start attacking and raiding.  If you keep your fleet moving then your less likely to get attacked by those that are going after destroyed ships points.

You can build more defenses and ships with these two tactics.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Matt on October 12, 2009, 02:31:56 PM
Quote from: "Riker"
Right now there are lots of inactives out there.  They are very productive, more so than running missions.

Another thing is find targets you can attack and start attacking and raiding.  If you keep your fleet moving then your less likely to get attacked by those that are going after destroyed ships points.

You can build more defenses and ships with these two tactics.

We are definitely seeing that a lot of the top players do those.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RichardOwen on November 09, 2009, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: "Dexxter"
Good ratio to build mines is:
Ore :3
Crystal :2
Hydrogen: 1


I'm assuming that you mean the ratio of material mined, not the level of the mine?

As in, hourly rates 600:400:200 as opposed to Ore Mine level 6, Crystal Mine level4, Hydrogen Thingy level 2?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: the smurf on November 11, 2009, 03:22:15 PM
Quote from: "RichardOwen"
Quote from: "Dexxter"
Good ratio to build mines is:
Ore :3
Crystal :2
Hydrogen: 1


I'm assuming that you mean the ratio of material mined, not the level of the mine?

As in, hourly rates 600:400:200 as opposed to Ore Mine level 6, Crystal Mine level4, Hydrogen Thingy level 2?

Right, it's hourly rates, since the amount of resources that are produced by a mine varies as you increase their level.  Each mine produces more than the last upgrade and so forth.  I've heard the best ratio of mine levels is 21/17/15.  Thats also right where the payoff time for the upgrade becomes very long.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: scarecrow on November 17, 2009, 02:06:04 AM
k its all fine and good to talk idely bout gettin ur fleet wiped out by a higher power when u already know all these tactics and watnot but honestly the VAST majority of ppl joining arent gonna have the first clue so would it be so horrid to set things up so rather then just bein able to attaacks someone within 5 times ur overall points it was more like someone within a certain range of fleet points or something like that so keep a new person who spent 2 months of time building up for the missions then took off diplo mode and lost everything to someone unfairly overpowering and then never wanting to play this app again? maybe we all care too much bout gettin our loot and not so much about fair fights and keepin interest in this sweet app....just my 3 cents.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: mreed911 on November 17, 2009, 03:23:09 AM
Don't present an attractive target.  Use your resources, fleetsave and resource save.  Play smart and you won't get owned.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: scarecrow on November 17, 2009, 03:26:24 AM
but thats just my point most new ppl arent gonna know all that and could put months into gettin things rolling then take off diplo mode get wiped and never wanna play again. maybe that dont matter to some ppl who are all about easy kills rather then fair since their on top but if we want this app to attract and KEEP more ppl....
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Laggynate on November 17, 2009, 03:28:06 AM
Quote from: "scarecrow"
but thats just my point most new ppl arent gonna know all that and could put months into gettin things rolling then take off diplo mode get wiped and never wanna play again.
A potential solution to this could be a tutorial for players once they get certain ships/technologies. This could introduce new concepts and game aspects to players in a timely and orderly manner.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Nobunaga on November 17, 2009, 03:32:55 AM
In twitter it had a "quest" path you took to get to a certain point.  Don't know if its on here or not but I would assume so.  Maybe add in a step where they have to open the wiki, the mb's, and the rules might help aleviate the duh moments
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: mreed911 on November 17, 2009, 04:23:25 AM
Quote from: "scarecrow"
but thats just my point most new ppl arent gonna know all that and could put months into gettin things rolling then take off diplo mode get wiped and never wanna play again. maybe that dont matter to some ppl who are all about easy kills rather then fair since their on top but if we want this app to attract and KEEP more ppl....

I've never once used diplo mode.   If you're in diplo mode, make sure you're out of resources before you're out of diplo mode.  No resources, no fleet parked on the front door, no attacks.  :)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: progman63 on November 17, 2009, 04:33:37 PM
The Wiki does not have half the material listed in these forums, and no strategy guide at all.

Just the bare facts, stats, and a Quick Start guide.

It's one thing for a seasoned 4X players to come into a new game and realize they need to learn the system to survive, it's another thing for new or more casual players who will not last more than a week or two.

That (more info and a strategy guide) really needs to be addressed in the Wiki for new players to keep them playing after the first time (or several times in most cases) they get hit and are almost completely wiped out.

Every game has a right way and wrong way to play it to have any chance to succeed.

If a player doesn't know how to play the game (tips, techniques, strategies) they will quit in disgust and never come back.

As I almost did.....
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Laggynate on November 18, 2009, 01:48:13 AM
Quote from: "progman63"
The Wiki does not have half the material listed in these forums, and no strategy guide at all.

Just the bare facts, stats, and a Quick Start guide.

It's one thing for a seasoned 4X players to come into a new game and realize they need to learn the system to survive, it's another thing for new or more casual players who will not last more than a week or two.

That (more info and a strategy guide) really needs to be addressed in the Wiki for new players to keep them playing after the first time (or several times in most cases) they get hit and are almost completely wiped out.

Every game has a right way and wrong way to play it to have any chance to succeed.

If a player doesn't know how to play the game (tips, techniques, strategies) they will quit in disgust and never come back.

As I almost did.....

Well it is a open wiki, you can contribute if you find something that's missing or not quite right :)
That's probably the only way the wiki will eventually be able to fill itself out to include everything that might occur to a new player to ask.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: spoo51 on November 20, 2009, 02:40:07 AM
So I made a post in the Colony thread about colony specialization... should I copy that here?  Because based on my calculations it looks like a huge strategy boost.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Ptonjalken on November 21, 2009, 05:05:52 AM
Quote from: "spoo51"
So I made a post in the Colony thread about colony specialization... should I copy that here?  Because based on my calculations it looks like a huge strategy boost.

Can't hurt.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Laggynate on November 21, 2009, 06:02:52 AM
Quote from: "Ptonjalken"
Quote from: "spoo51"
So I made a post in the Colony thread about colony specialization... should I copy that here?  Because based on my calculations it looks like a huge strategy boost.

Can't hurt.
Well I mathematically disproved it :P

It was an interesting idea though.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Ptonjalken on November 21, 2009, 06:55:10 AM
Quote from: "Laggynate"
Quote from: "Ptonjalken"
Quote from: "spoo51"
So I made a post in the Colony thread about colony specialization... should I copy that here?  Because based on my calculations it looks like a huge strategy boost.

Can't hurt.
Well I mathematically disproved it :P

It was an interesting idea though.

Ah, figured it was something legit. Don't need misleading info then.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Jermoe on November 22, 2009, 08:56:53 AM
Quote
7. Scale your defenses along with your planet. In the early days, a lot of people put way too many resources into defense. This is because they perhaps think building defense is a substitution for fleet saving, but unless you're in the top few players it is not, so there isn't much point in building lots of easily destroyed missile turrets.
As long as you're fleet saving when you're not online and building when you are, you'll never have anything for people to attack, so people generally won't attack you. Put your resources into research, mines, ships, and colonizing instead.

I would have to say you underrate defense.  I just lost my entire fleet because some guy built a few laser cannons between my initial espionage and the attack.  I am a reckless noob and all, but ouch.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on November 22, 2009, 02:22:56 PM
Don't think building up defenses from the start is a good idea either, since it takes money away from having a good starting fleet. To add to it, you can't really do anything with a few defenses if a stronger player comes to say hello, money wasted that could have gone in another cargo.
I'd stick with raiding inactive players for the start unless you have a strong enough fleet.
My 2c as a newb  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: LunarAvenger on November 22, 2009, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: "Jermoe"
Quote
7. Scale your defenses along with your planet. In the early days, a lot of people put way too many resources into defense. This is because they perhaps think building defense is a substitution for fleet saving, but unless you're in the top few players it is not, so there isn't much point in building lots of easily destroyed missile turrets.
As long as you're fleet saving when you're not online and building when you are, you'll never have anything for people to attack, so people generally won't attack you. Put your resources into research, mines, ships, and colonizing instead.

I would have to say you underrate defense.  I just lost my entire fleet because some guy built a few laser cannons between my initial espionage and the attack.  I am a reckless noob and all, but ouch.

There is such a thing as probing before the attack hits... that would prevent this from happening.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Jermoe on November 22, 2009, 03:56:49 PM
Quote from: "LunarAvenger"
Quote from: "Jermoe"
Quote
7. Scale your defenses along with your planet. In the early days, a lot of people put way too many resources into defense. This is because they perhaps think building defense is a substitution for fleet saving, but unless you're in the top few players it is not, so there isn't much point in building lots of easily destroyed missile turrets.
As long as you're fleet saving when you're not online and building when you are, you'll never have anything for people to attack, so people generally won't attack you. Put your resources into research, mines, ships, and colonizing instead.

I would have to say you underrate defense.  I just lost my entire fleet because some guy built a few laser cannons between my initial espionage and the attack.  I am a reckless noob and all, but ouch.

There is such a thing as probing before the attack hits... that would prevent this from happening.

Ya...I didn't notice the # next to the defenses go up...and even if I did, me cacleing a fight on their account proves their usefulness just as well.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: ProfCrash on November 23, 2009, 03:54:16 AM
Is there any strategy advice for people who cannot be on all day? I cannot access facebook at work. This is going to limit my ability to run missions and build.

I joined this weekend and already see that the 8-10 hours I cannot be on watching my planet is going to really hurt my ability to do well in the game. I wish that the missions took longer but were more rewarding. Same for building. I wouldn't mind a longer build time if if it was more rewarding.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Pout on November 23, 2009, 04:46:09 AM
As you say, it is going to be difficult for you to be competitive since some of your opponents can afford to be online pretty much all the time.

But if you want to play the game and have fun with attacks and such, the best you can do is attack inactives right before logging off and adjusting the speed of your attack fleet so that it only returns right after you can log back on.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RichardOwen on November 23, 2009, 10:07:46 PM
Quote from: "Dexxter"
Good ratio to build mines is:
Ore :3
Crystal :2
Hydrogen: 1

To make a good fleet:
Ore :4
Crystal :2
Hydrogen :1

Do you mean that the levels are in the ratio 3:2:1 (level 9 ore, level 6 crystal, level 3 hydrogen) or do you mean the outputs should be in the ration 3:2:1 (3,000 ore/hr, 2,000 crystal/hr, 1,000 hydrogen/hr)?

The difference is significant.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dzyu on November 24, 2009, 12:56:49 AM
Quote from: "RichardOwen"
Quote from: "Dexxter"
Good ratio to build mines is:
Ore :3
Crystal :2
Hydrogen: 1

To make a good fleet:
Ore :4
Crystal :2
Hydrogen :1

Do you mean that the levels are in the ratio 3:2:1 (level 9 ore, level 6 crystal, level 3 hydrogen) or do you mean the outputs should be in the ration 3:2:1 (3,000 ore/hr, 2,000 crystal/hr, 1,000 hydrogen/hr)?

The difference is significant.
Quote from: "the smurf"
Quote from: "RichardOwen"
Quote from: "Dexxter"
Good ratio to build mines is:
Ore :3
Crystal :2
Hydrogen: 1


I'm assuming that you mean the ratio of material mined, not the level of the mine?

As in, hourly rates 600:400:200 as opposed to Ore Mine level 6, Crystal Mine level4, Hydrogen Thingy level 2?

Right, it's hourly rates, since the amount of resources that are produced by a mine varies as you increase their level.  Each mine produces more than the last upgrade and so forth.  I've heard the best ratio of mine levels is 21/17/15.  Thats also right where the payoff time for the upgrade becomes very long.

It's a good idea to actually read the thread. There are more good tips in here. ;)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on November 24, 2009, 01:23:25 AM
I'm still somewhat of a newbie, somewhere around 14K-15K but I'm already noticing that I need a huge load of Hydro, especially for research. Got mines at lvl 9/10/8 with ore running at only 90% because I don't have enough power. Output/hour is at 592/549/259.
But the hydro is way behind, and not as easy to gather as crystal or ore with missions.
Don't really consider Ore a priority since I can get 1'200 every 3 minutes or so doing missions, but only about 810/4min crystal and 390/3min (!) hydro. (AI 5 with 6 atlas/art).

Any thoughts? <.<;
Inactive players around me have almost no hydro production, other players that aren't under nexbie protection are mostly Dip.  :?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Ptonjalken on November 24, 2009, 01:42:30 AM
Quote from: "Angus Mengsk"
I'm still somewhat of a newbie, somewhere around 14K-15K but I'm already noticing that I need a huge load of Hydro, especially for research. Got mines at lvl 9/10/8 with ore running at only 90% because I don't have enough power. Output/hour is at 592/549/259.
But the hydro is way behind, and not as easy to gather as crystal or ore with missions.
Don't really consider Ore a priority since I can get 1'200 every 3 minutes or so doing missions, but only about 810/4min crystal and 390/3min (!) hydro. (AI 5 with 6 atlas/art).

Any thoughts? <.<;
Inactive players around me have almost no hydro production, other players that aren't under nexbie protection are mostly Dip.  :?

Hydro is always going to be the most scarce out of the three, the mines get bloody expensive. Your better off getting it from raids (fleet kills, not inactive raids) rather than your mines :)

Or trade if you know anyone.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on November 24, 2009, 01:50:25 AM
Well not going to upgrade the mines much more unless I have tons of resources to spare, but I'll be going for colonies soon, just have to hope those won't get hit too quickly.
I'll have to find some around that aren't too tough and not in Dip, although I've spotted a few in the 20K-30K range in the +/- 10 systems around me, shouldn't be a problem in a few days with a proper fleet I guess, gotta get my first Poseidons.  :mrgreen:
Meh, trade, that would mean me losing resources, I'd rather invest these. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dzyu on November 24, 2009, 03:15:54 AM
Quote from: "Ptonjalken"
Hydro is always going to be the most scarce out of the three
It's funny considering it's the most abundant resource in the universe. :)
I mean, there are whole planets(gas giants) made of the stuff. In our solar system Jupiter is composed of about 75% hydrogen, Saturn's outer atmosphere is about 96% hydrogen and there are lower layers composed of liquid metallic hydrogen, and then there's Uranus (~83%) and Neptune (~80%) which also have vast ammounts of hydrogen in its atmospheres, though less in their cores. Mining/extracting this, with the technologies available in SFC, should be a breeze... :P

Of course, I do realize that game design/balance is more important than avoiding suspension of disbelief... I'm just saying it's funny. :P
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: ActionJackson on November 24, 2009, 06:41:15 AM
Quote from: "Matt"
In the earliest part of the game you've got newbie protection, so you don't need to worry about fleet saving until after 100 points. But as soon as you cross that marker, there will be people looking for you. You've still got newbie protection from people over 5 times your points, so you might not start getting attacks for awhile but you should be prepared. It won't be too long.

Just to clarify for others out there, I just found this out the hard way after getting attacked by someone ranking from top 20. You only have newbie protection from people over 5 times your points ONLY if your building points (under resources spent) is less than 5000 points. After 5000 building points, it's dog eat dog world. Anyone including Mr. #1 Rank can come and attack you. SO FLEET SAVE!

Thought it might be useful to add that since I'm sure there are plenty of others who are not aware of this rule.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on November 24, 2009, 06:49:08 AM
better to fleet save as soon as you leave the first noob protection at over 100 points, don't need a high ranked player to lose just about everything.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RichardOwen on November 24, 2009, 07:13:05 AM
Quote from: "Dzyu"
It's a good idea to actually read the thread. There are more good tips in here. ;)

Sorry, I forgot I'd posted this question before. You're right, it's always good to check.

A production ratio of 3:2:1 is pretty close to parity of mine level. The big difference is the amount of hydrogen produced which is a function of planet position in the SS, so you might need one more or one fewer levels for hydrogen production.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: President Penny on November 26, 2009, 10:14:38 AM
Quote
Just to clarify for others out there, I just found this out the hard way after getting attacked by someone ranking from top 20. You only have newbie protection from people over 5 times your points ONLY if your building points (under resources spent) is less than 5000 points. After 5000 building points, it's dog eat dog world. Anyone including Mr. #1 Rank can come and attack you. SO FLEET SAVE!


Mr. 500 can also hit you, heck Mr 2,500 can wipe you out.  Fleet save shouldn't be something because you are worried about the top 100, be worried about EVERYONE!
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: aomega on November 26, 2009, 02:45:26 PM
For some reason I have an abundance of H, so much so that I keep having to build more cargo so I can resource save it. The monumental stash is becoming a bit of a liability and I can't spend it fast enough!
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dzyu on November 26, 2009, 10:28:33 PM
Funny. I never had that problem. Research AI tech? :P
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on November 26, 2009, 10:46:43 PM
AI and Jet for faster hercs, takes lots of hydro.

On a side note, I've noticed that having your attack fleet arrive 2-3 seconds before your cargo fleet is not such a good idea. Thankfully that was a test run on a weak (but oh so full of resources) player. <.<;;;
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: aomega on November 27, 2009, 12:03:16 AM
Why don't you send them in the same fleet?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on November 27, 2009, 12:07:28 AM
simple, the cargo ships took 2-3 hours to arrive, the Poseidons only 1. I just kept them to continue doing the missions and gather up some more resources before I'm left with nothing to do but wait.
 :mrgreen:

(And that way the cargo ships don't get targeted, I send just enough to get all the resources I could with one attack)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: aomega on November 27, 2009, 12:32:24 AM
But some of the defenses destroyed by the attack fleet are likely to get rebuilt and destroy your cargo fleet (?) Or should I have let you find that out yourself ;-)

Not wanting to criticize your strategy but it sounds easier to build more cargo to run missions with while your attack fleet is in transit.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on November 27, 2009, 12:43:06 AM
*scratches head* defenses get rebuild? <.<;
doh! nevermind xD
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Nathan Voges on November 27, 2009, 06:29:42 AM
One thing I'm curious about:  is there any random element in the combat resolution?  I haven't been in many battles, but is seems like the larger fleet always wins.  While that's satisfyingly predictable if you're the attacker, what hope does that give to defenders?

I've played a lot of games, electronic and non-electronic.  I do enjoy this format, and will continue playing for the forseeable future.  Here are some observations about the system:  First, most battles seem to be recreations of Pearl Harbor, where a player catches the opposing fleet in port and obliterates them because the incoming fleet is bigger or better equipped.  Had the Starfleet Commander combat resolution been a part of the Pacific Theater in WW2, the US would have lost both the battles of Midway and Leyte Gulf, just because the attacking Japanese forces were numerically superior.  While it stands to reason that a stronger player should predictably defeat a weaker player, I think some sort of variable of luck to instill some "fog of war" would be helpful.  Right now, things seem too cut-and-dried for my taste.  I'd like to see a defending fleet have a chance to inflict disproportionate losses against an attacker.  Otherwise, there seems to be no reason to station a combat fleet at a planet, at all.  If you fleet save, and can't get back when you thought you would, you just might be toast.

As I understand them, tactics for being successful as a lower level player are akin to qualifying for Medicaid in the US:  in order to get the Gov't to pay your medical bills, you have to spend yourself into poverty to qualify.  The same tactic seems to be at work, here.  One must constantly spend resources down to poverty levels to keep from being noticed by some higher ranked player who will raid you when you're not looking.  Additionally, the best defensive tactic is to send fleets away so they can't participate in the defense of the planet, which defies a certain amount of common sense.

In real life, a naval fleet, or any military force, that is confronted with a superior enemy force will do one of 3 things:  Stand and fight, Fight and withdraw, or just withdraw.  A *mobile* defending force should be able to flee, subject to certain limitations.  What if this were  in place:  

(continued)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Nathan Voges on November 27, 2009, 07:06:25 AM
(continued from previous)

What if the combat ratios were compared prior to the battle with the following outcomes:  If the attacking fleet is inferior or no more than 2:1 odds against the defending fleet, the battle commences.  If the odds are higher than 2:1, then a sliding scale sub-routine of engagement or evasion is implemented.  For each whole-number ratio above 2.0, the defending fleet has a 20% chance of not engaging the the attackers.  If the attackers are 4:1, then the defenders have a 40% chance to flee, at 5:1 a 60% chance.  The ratio is capped at 6:1/80%, so there is always a chance the defending fleet will be "caught" by the attackers.  This ability can be tied into the Espionage rating of the defending player, where a 1% bonus per Espionage level is achieved, with a maximum evasion rating of 90%.  This all happens before the battle.  If the defending fleet evades, the attack commences verses the remaining ground units.

During the battle, the losing side, whether attacking or defending, should also have the ability to withdraw from combat and minimize losses.  This dovetails nicely with the current system.  Once either side loses 50% of its force (fleet and ground for defenders), a "morale check" of sorts kicks in to see how long the mobile attackers or defenders will remain.  At 50% losses, there is a 20% chance the remaining fleet will flee, leaving the ground units to finish the battle, if defenders, or cease the battle, if the losing side is the attacker.  Once the losing side reaches 40% of original strength, there is a 40% chance of withdrawal, up to 80% when the losing side is at 20% of original strength.  Again, bonuses could be added through AI rating, or similar, not to exceed 90%.  In real life, units are rarely destroyed, 100%, but there is always the chance that a unit will fight to the death, or be trapped and compelled to do so.  Adding these sub-routines to the current combat system will add realism without sacrificing playability.  The numerical ratios I've used in the examples are suggestions, of course.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: aomega on November 27, 2009, 05:12:47 PM
You are missing the deterrent effect that defences and powerful fleets have. If you are scanned and the potential attacker sees they are outgunned or the result of the battle is not certain, they simply don't attack. If someone does launch an attack, you do get the chance to assess whether your fleet stands a chance of defending. If not, best get out the way. The problem is you can't make this choice while you are logged off which is why you have to fleet save. I don't think there is anything wrong with the battle mechanics per se, although the strategic depth of this game is currently a bit limited.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Nathan Voges on November 28, 2009, 03:15:12 AM
Right, but what constitutes a "big fleet"?  I learned the hard way that a fleet led by 6 Athenas is no match when attacked by 30 Athenas, etc.  For me to match that, I'll have to build for a couple of weeks.  In the meantime, my existing fleet, no matter how strong, can be completely destroyed if I misjudge the interval of my fleet-save.  I like this game, but my life doesn't revolve around it.  Based on the time I spend, there's maybe a one in 12 chance I'll be online when an incoming attack is launched.  Additionally, if the attacker is in, say Singapore, and launches while I'm asleep, there's no way for me to respond, regardless.  The other thing I don't like about the fleet save is that if I come back to the game earlier than anticipated, my fleets are stuck on some fool's errand to save their titanium hides.

How about this:  a "Fleet Save" button, that is 100% customizable, say up to 24 hours, but with a recall button that brings the fleets back to the home planet within 1 hour's time.  This would simulate the fleets being on active local patrol.  Bottom line, I think the game would be better if the way to protect one's fleets were less convoluted.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: aomega on November 28, 2009, 05:52:16 PM
Why don't you build massive defenses instead of massive fleets? If you don't overbuild your fleet and keep it proportional to the size of what you use it for (attacks or missions) and use defenses to protect your mines,  you should be able to find the right combination to deter attacks. You can still fleet save but only as a precaution. If your planets are near a lot of action (mine aren't) and you keep being hit by the same players, consider finding somewhere quieter.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Stav on November 29, 2009, 02:11:45 AM
Quote from: "Nathan Voges"
...I like this game, but my life doesn't revolve around it.  Based on the time I spend, there's maybe a one in 12 chance I'll be online when an incoming attack is launched.  Additionally, if the attacker is in, say Singapore, and launches while I'm asleep, there's no way for me to respond, regardless.  The other thing I don't like about the fleet save is that if I come back to the game earlier than anticipated, my fleets are stuck on some fool's errand to save their titanium hides.

How about this:  a "Fleet Save" button, that is 100% customizable, say up to 24 hours, but with a recall button that brings the fleets back to the home planet within 1 hour's time.  This would simulate the fleets being on active local patrol.  Bottom line, I think the game would be better if the way to protect one's fleets were less convoluted.

This is the dead-on problem for those of us who want to play the game somewhat casually.  And the proposed solution is pretty good as well, IMO.  

I understand that as a casual player, I'm never going to be up there with the people who spend all their hours online playing this game.  And I'm OK with that.  

But I would actually like to be able to play when I do log on.  If I fleet save, I may or may not be able to actually play with my fleets, based on how lucky my guess was about when I'd be able to check back in.  Meh.  

The system as it is set up pretty much tells us casual gamers to go find another game, more in fitting with our schedule.  That's fine if it is what the designers intend (but I'd appreciate being told so more explicitly, rather than having to waste time figuring it out).  But if the game is intended to be welcoming to both hard core and casual gamers, it needs a tweak.  Otherwise, all the casual gamers will slowly go diplo or abandoned.

Quite simply, as many people have noted, "fleet-saving" is a perverted mechanic.  It doesn't really make sense narratively, and to many, it seems like exploiting a loophole in game design.  However, the proposal above actually does make some kind of sense -- you send your fleet out on a mission to patrol the outer edges of your system; then you recall them when you return to the game.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Klarg on November 29, 2009, 01:07:35 PM
I understand the importance of fleet saving. However, when I go to my Fleet page and put in a coordinate of an uncolonized planet, it comes back with "Planet can not be found". Do I need a certain level of tech? How is this done????????
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: poeticmotion on November 29, 2009, 04:13:15 PM
Quote from: "Klarg"
I understand the importance of fleet saving. However, when I go to my Fleet page and put in a coordinate of an uncolonized planet, it comes back with "Planet can not be found". Do I need a certain level of tech? How is this done????????

 You can't go to an uncolonized planet (unless you're sending a colony ship.) You have to send your fleet to an existing world. However, if you send your fleet to another world on a transport mission, it can't be attacked.

However, any resources you load in your fleet will automatically be dumped at the world you send them to, so you can't really resource save this way, just fleet save. To resource save, you need the Dionysus. I just got mine yesterday after dedicating all my resources to getting it since I exited newbie protection. That waqy, you can send your fleet and resources on a 'harvest' mission and they bring your resources back to you. Added bonus: You're completely invisible on a harvest mission...even the world you fleetsave to can't see you.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Lord Admiral Follett on December 02, 2009, 10:56:19 PM
Quote
First, most battles seem to be recreations of Pearl Harbor, where a player catches the opposing fleet in port and obliterates them because the incoming fleet is bigger or better equipped.

90% of real life battles are the equivalent of Pearl Harbor.
Quote
Had the Starfleet Commander combat resolution been a part of the Pacific Theater in WW2, the US would have lost both the battles of Midway and Leyte Gulf, just because the attacking Japanese forces were numerically superior.

Upsets do happen in this game, largely due to random targeting. After all there is a chance of every ship to hit the ship it was designed to kill. But for practical purposes this doesn't happen much, hence "fodder fleets." The 3 battle techs give you some chance to be better equipped, and having ships with rapid fire will let you surprise an opponent quite frequently. In real war though, the side that is bigger/better equipped generally wins in the end (ie: US victory in WWII, US victory in the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, Allied victory at Stalingrad...etc...etc...etc...)

Quote
While it stands to reason that a stronger player should predictably defeat a weaker player, I think some sort of variable of luck to instill some "fog of war" would be helpful. Right now, things seem too cut-and-dried for my taste. I'd like to see a defending fleet have a chance to inflict disproportionate losses against an attacker. Otherwise, there seems to be no reason to station a combat fleet at a planet, at all. If you fleet save, and can't get back when you thought you would, you just might be toast.

The fog of war is called random targeting, and it defies all explanation. Defending fleets operate in sync with defenses, which allow them to inflict INCREDIBLE losses on an attacker if the defense is planned...besides, higher level players will occasionally "ninja" for you, and block an attacking fleet. This game has a very complex, and in my view, very fun battle system.

Good post though
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: aomega on December 02, 2009, 11:41:28 PM
Surely it was an Allied victory in WWII?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Sarah Bellum on December 03, 2009, 12:18:11 AM
I'm sorry, this may not be related enough to stay here, but after reading this topic, I had to ask a question based on the following quote:

Quote
So it's now been 3 weeks since the reset and we're seeing some definite trends emerge. A few players are separating themselves from the pack, and we've checked out some data to see why.

And now I have to ask, does this game reset periodically? And if so, what constitutes the "end game" and what would the strategy for that be? And how would one start over? Are you randomly placed with a new undeveloped planet the same as when you first begin playing?

Just an FYI, I only began playing a few weeks ago, so I'm still reading and trying to learn how best to play the game.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Laggynate on December 03, 2009, 01:39:22 AM
Quote from: "Sarah Bellum"
I'm sorry, this may not be related enough to stay here, but after reading this topic, I had to ask a question based on the following quote:

Quote
So it's now been 3 weeks since the reset and we're seeing some definite trends emerge. A few players are separating themselves from the pack, and we've checked out some data to see why.

And now I have to ask, does this game reset periodically? And if so, what constitutes the "end game" and what would the strategy for that be? And how would one start over? Are you randomly placed with a new undeveloped planet the same as when you first begin playing?

Just an FYI, I only began playing a few weeks ago, so I'm still reading and trying to learn how best to play the game.
The game only reset once when beta testing was finished.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Fpoole on December 03, 2009, 09:45:47 PM
I just sent my fleet out to the largest numbered planet in my home system. On a cargo mission with no cargo. At 10 percent speed. This is my attempt at "Fleet Save" a concept that makes very little sense to me. Don't you want your fleet to defend your home planet if attacked? What happens to your mines, etc. when attacked if the fleet's away? I guess it makes sense to save the fleet, but if your other stuff is going to get pummeled, you're still kind of screwed, right?

Why not incorporate some function of strategy to battles? If the only strategy is to run away, why, that's no fun.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: aomega on December 03, 2009, 11:22:58 PM
"Don't you want your fleet to defend your home planet if attacked?"

That depends on the size of the invading fleet. If it is superior, you will get smashed and are better off out the way. If it is inferior, why would the attacker have bothered attacking knowing your fleet can beat it? The issue is you cannot make a decision to defend or flee when you are not logged on. That's why you fleet save when you are offline, as a precaution. Logic dictates that you will only suffer an attack if the attacker has assessed that they will win. So hide your fleet (and resources) when you are logged off.

This game is more about predation than war.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Obsidian on December 04, 2009, 08:39:31 AM
I'm just waiting for the day where I can be part of a well timed group defend that catches the attacker totally off guard.  So far I haven't even come close to being part of that though.  With my luck I may end up being the victim.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Fpoole on December 04, 2009, 07:05:54 PM
Aomega, I guess it's my newness to the game that causes my confusion. "Protecting resources" in my mind, means protecting your home planet. But it seems that for this game, protecting your fleet is the main point? Maybe as I play longer I'll get a better feel for what happens in attacks.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Tauri on December 04, 2009, 07:34:39 PM
Quote from: "Fpoole"
I just sent my fleet out to the largest numbered planet in my home system. On a cargo mission with no cargo. At 10 percent speed. This is my attempt at "Fleet Save" a concept that makes very little sense to me. Don't you want your fleet to defend your home planet if attacked? What happens to your mines, etc. when attacked if the fleet's away? I guess it makes sense to save the fleet, but if your other stuff is going to get pummeled, you're still kind of screwed, right?

Nope... your infrastructure on your planet (mines, shipyard, factories, etc) are invincible.  The top 5 fleets combined can come knocking on your door and do nothing if you properly resource/fleet save.  It does seem backwards, but with your home world and colonies (minus defenses and solar satellites) completely invincible, it doesn't make too much sense to protect them.

If you've got an attack coming at you, you've get plenty of time to stop resource production, load up all of your resources into your ships and send them for a slow trip around the sun.  Ships cost resources to build and to deploy and give resources on destruction.  If there's nothing there for the attacking fleet to collect they won't bother to continue the attack.

Simple as that.

[edit]added in solar satellites, but wish they were invincible too  :) [/edit]
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Novo on December 04, 2009, 11:03:03 PM
Quote from: "Fpoole"
Aomega, I guess it's my newness to the game that causes my confusion. "Protecting resources" in my mind, means protecting your home planet. But it seems that for this game, protecting your fleet is the main point? Maybe as I play longer I'll get a better feel for what happens in attacks.

It seems like a game tailor-made for alliances, really, because as you advance the only time you'll ever use your fleet is on a joint raid of some kind.

Well, aside from picking on IN's at the beginning, but that's about it.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Pseudocyber on December 05, 2009, 02:32:07 PM
Not necessarily - I us my fleet to attack weaker fleets with resources on their planets.  Here's last nights - I have another one out right now.

Attacker
VS
Defender

The attacking side acquired 226728 ore, 63899 crystal, and 16658 hydrogen.

Some of the enemy's defenses were rebuilt.
There now float 617250 ore and 317400 crystal around this planet.

123 Atlas, 177 Artie, 50 Appollo, 33 Posieden, 17 Athena, 14 Hades

vs.

18 Probes, 29 Atlas, 39 Arties, 30 Appollos, 14 Hercs, 8 Dios, 11 Posidens, 14 Athenas, 4 Hades, 4 Ares

I lost 3 Posi, 12 Appollo, 58 Arties, 45 Atlas.

He's been fleetsaving at the last minute, so it was hard to pin him down - but worth it, just to win. :)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Stav on December 07, 2009, 12:59:06 PM
Quote from: "Tauri"
Quote from: "Fpoole"
I just sent my fleet out to the largest numbered planet in my home system. On a cargo mission with no cargo. At 10 percent speed. This is my attempt at "Fleet Save" a concept that makes very little sense to me. Don't you want your fleet to defend your home planet if attacked? What happens to your mines, etc. when attacked if the fleet's away? I guess it makes sense to save the fleet, but if your other stuff is going to get pummeled, you're still kind of screwed, right?

Nope... your infrastructure on your planet (mines, shipyard, factories, etc) are invincible.  The top 5 fleets combined can come knocking on your door and do nothing if you properly resource/fleet save.  It does seem backwards, but with your home world and colonies (minus defenses and solar satellites) completely invincible, it doesn't make too much sense to protect them.

If you've got an attack coming at you, you've get plenty of time to stop resource production, load up all of your resources into your ships and send them for a slow trip around the sun.  Ships cost resources to build and to deploy and give resources on destruction.  If there's nothing there for the attacking fleet to collect they won't bother to continue the attack.

Simple as that.[/edit]

This is in fact how the game works.  It doesn't make sense to many/most people as a "real life" model (myself included), but it has its defenders.  You have to suspend disbelief, and play by the rules of running around all the time, trying to avoid getting smashed by someone bigger than you.  Don't think of it as straight-out line-'em-up-and-duke-it-out warfare.  It's more like you are hiding in a cave in Afghanistan, on the run, hoping the bigger superpowers don't find you at home with their Predator drone strikes.  That's how they set up the game.  They don't seem interested changing this major part of the strategy flowchart.  It's your call whether this sounds like fun to you.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Akkarin on December 07, 2009, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: "Stav"
They don't seem interested changing this major part of the strategy flowchart.  It's your call whether this sounds like fun to you.

How long do you think you would last if they changed the rules ?

The whole point is that if you have a good foundation then even if you are wiped out you can rebuild a fleet quite quickly.

Do you really think a couple of soldiers would link arms and try and stop a tank ?

I don't get why everyone runs down the game yet logs in here and still plays ... if you don't like it you don't have to play.

So work within the limitations and make the game work for you.  

Sooner or later we all make a mistake and the thrill of the hunt makes the hit even better.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Fpoole on December 07, 2009, 05:23:49 PM
Thanks for the responses, the info does help. I'm still playing the game but question whether I'll have time/interest in the long run. We'll see.

One person mentioned "picking on INs." The legend lists these as "too low for you to attack." Is it possible to attack in-s?

Thanks again for the discussion.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Pout on December 07, 2009, 05:25:29 PM
Yes.  You can attack anyone that is inactive (i or I)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: dbmoreland on December 08, 2009, 01:49:08 AM
Quote from: "Pout"
Yes.  You can attack anyone that is inactive (i or I)
(in) means inactive AND new (<100 points).
While you can attack an inactive you cannot attack a newbie.
So the question is which takes precidence, i.e. can you attack an inactive newbie?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Orz on December 08, 2009, 02:15:38 AM
Quote from: "dbmoreland"
(in) means inactive AND new (<100 points).
While you can attack an inactive you cannot attack a newbie.
So the question is which takes precidence, i.e. can you attack an inactive newbie?

Quote from: "Pout"
Yes.  You can attack anyone that is inactive (i or I)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: goonburghandy on December 08, 2009, 09:01:03 PM
Yes you can attack an inactive newbie, and as a newb myself I recommend it, I am looking for (in) people often to plunder them and upgrade my fleet (working on my Poseidons now). Just remember that a lot of the in-actives I see are ranked around the 100,000k area, and most of them do not have any established mines.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Gregor Frolov on December 09, 2009, 05:55:05 PM
If the buildings weren't indestructible, then there would be a huge point in defending your base.  The way it seems to me, however, it's all about money-grabbing from whomever you can as often as you can and the real strategy comes in timing your attack fleets to engage a poorly-coordinated defender and grab some phat lutz from debris collection.  As it is the game is fairly fun to me right now (after about 2 days playing).  I wouldn't mind the change to make your buildings to be vulnerable at some point in the future, though ... Yes, the paradigm shift would cause a lot of complaints but you'd probably see a whole lot more action that way.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dzyu on December 10, 2009, 09:34:56 AM
Sure, but you would also see alot more player migration... There are dozens of games like that on the web. Maybe dip mode and indestructible buildings is what makes SFC so good for alot of us that we chose to play it, rather than those other games?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Angus Mengsk on December 10, 2009, 02:45:39 PM
I tried another game that has destroyable buildings and even gives you resources for destroyed defenses.
It sucked, not only was I put in the middle of players that were far more advanced, but wen some random guy destroys _everything_ you have with 1'000 heavy attack ships when you can barely build 10 transporters, that's just retarded.

It's just fine the way it is right now with the buildings IMO.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dargarath on December 11, 2009, 08:24:26 PM
Quote from: "Angus Mengsk"
I tried another game that has destroyable buildings and even gives you resources for destroyed defenses.
It sucked, not only was I put in the middle of players that were far more advanced, but wen some random guy destroys _everything_ you have with 1'000 heavy attack ships when you can barely build 10 transporters, that's just retarded.

It's just fine the way it is right now with the buildings IMO.

The only thing I would change, is I would have a way to destroy missile silos, they really are defenses rather than buildings.  But besides that I agree with Angus.  I like the basic setup of the game.  A few tweaks would be nice, but it's a good game, especially for something that you only pay if you want to.
Title: Lucy Hop
Post by: BentLightyear on December 13, 2009, 04:59:25 AM
I have just invented something that maybe you have used, too.  I call it the "Lucy Hop" because it reminds me of Lucy holding the football for Linus to kick in the cartoon "Peanuts".  She always yanks the ball away at the last minute and Linus falls on his behind.  She promises faithfully every time that she won't do it again, and then she does.

The tactic takes advantage of the 5 terameter distance built into every world.  If you deploy from planet A to planet A, you travel in a loop 5 terameters long.  The time it takes to travel this loop depends on the ships used, but the shortest I have seen is around 0:4:47.

So, when you are being attacked, you prepare a deployment (from your planet back to your planet) of all your ships, full of all your resources.  When the attack is two minutes out, you execute the deployment.  You hop off the planet long enough for the attack to hit, then you plop back down.

If the attacker sends a probe just before the attack, he sees all of your fleet and resources.  When the attack hits, he gets nothing.  Confused, he sends another probe and sees all your fleet and resources again!  lol

You should use the Fleets view to make sure he's not sending a second attack a few minutes behind the first one.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: zero on December 13, 2009, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: "BentLightyear"
I have just invented something that maybe you have used, too.  I call it the "Lucy Hop"

If the attacker sends a probe just before the attack, he sees all of your fleet and resources.  When the attack hits, he gets nothing.  Confused, he sends another probe and sees all your fleet and resources again!  lol

You should use the Fleets view to make sure he's not sending a second attack a few minutes behind the first one.

LOL nice move
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Insomnia on December 15, 2009, 05:00:30 PM
Thanks for the advice ;)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: davidn on December 16, 2009, 10:25:54 PM
hey you might have to  make a bit of edits .
no more custom fleet :)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: BentLightyear on December 18, 2009, 06:28:53 PM
No more custom fleets?  :?:   What does that mean?  Please clarify.

And edits to what?  Please give us a little context.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dargarath on December 18, 2009, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: "BentLightyear"
No more custom fleets?  :?:   What does that mean?  Please clarify.

And edits to what?  Please give us a little context.
There are no more custom fleets for missions, and this is the strategy guide thread, if you look at the first page, with the changes, there need to be edits.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Najus on December 18, 2009, 11:23:00 PM
.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RipKill on December 21, 2009, 02:52:34 AM
all true.. :)
Uni 6 player also.... the subtle differences this game involves should be fun.
 
Is there a place where we can post crash reports etc pretty please..??  
Any hits over 100K in fleet points should be classed as Advanced hits.. I wonder whats the biggest so far guys..?

Happy hunting..
RipKill.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: SFCanonymous on December 21, 2009, 03:06:19 AM
The largest debris field I have seen is about 3mil ore 2mil crystal -->16.67mil res worth of ships killed
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RipKill on December 21, 2009, 03:11:23 AM
and are we getting moons at all..??   :)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Obsidian on December 21, 2009, 03:12:48 AM
Soon as our probes can find them.  The have trouble with moons for some reason
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RipKill on December 21, 2009, 03:16:46 AM
:)
feedback appreciated..  I can't believe I missed out on the first few months of this game..  
seems I have some catching up to do with the Top 100..   :evil:  

Happy Hunting all..
RipKill
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: chimbinh on December 21, 2009, 05:09:56 PM
what does the Moon in this game do?? I can't find it on wiki.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dargarath on December 21, 2009, 05:14:12 PM
Quote from: "chimbinh"
what does the Moon in this game do?? I can't find it on wiki.
nothing yet, it's a proposed addition that the developers have said they are looking at.  That's why it's not on wiki
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: mlytle73 on December 23, 2009, 10:08:58 PM
What would be the purpose of moons?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RipKill on December 23, 2009, 11:26:41 PM
My apologies, I seem to have opened a can of worms.

Usually a moon, or 2 moons in different galaxies to be precise.
would allow you to instantly jump any fleet you have between them. As long as you've built Jump gates on each moon of course.  ;)
As well as a few other neat little tricks that (hopefully) the developers have in store for us..
Then again... I could be completely barking.

we shall have to wait and see I suppose.. :)

Happy Hunting all, and play nice.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Karieith on December 24, 2009, 04:32:03 AM
Quote from: "The ZPM"
May I add:

8. Be civil, even if you're really, really mad that someone attacked you.  After all, that's the point of the game!  If you are rude or start sending obscenities to your attacker, you just made yourself a target again.  You don't know when, and you don't know where, but pissing someone off means they might even attack you when it is not profitable.  They might even send in 4 or 5 consecutive waves of unprofitable attacks to take down your defenses, for no other reason than you were rude.

Raiders and Brigands are going to maul you regardless of civility. People are dicks.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Obsidian on December 24, 2009, 04:34:41 AM
Quote from: "Karieith"
Raiders and Brigands are going to maul you regardless of civility. People are dicks.

The point of the game is to raid and maul, if you leave yourself open you deserve it.  The person you should be mad at is yourself for botching, not the person taking advantage of your botch.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RipKill on December 26, 2009, 02:01:57 AM
Slightly off topic I admit, but obsidian, that dog in your avatar is spooky man,
It stares, it watches my every click,
It waits.......  lol

Brrrrr..      do you have a pic of him frolicking in the fields on a happier day perhaps..??    ^^
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Obsidian on December 26, 2009, 03:50:15 AM
Hahah, I have lots of pics of him, and most of them are much happier looking. ..

hold on one sec

(http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/Night_Parade/Gambit1.jpg)




Yup, same dog, just less photoshop.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RipKill on December 26, 2009, 05:06:13 AM
Awwww now that's much better ! what a cutie ..  :)

Thanks for ending my horrible canine based nightmare,
The demon dog's wrath has finally been replaced with the altogether more smiley....  "go on.. gimme a bone and I'll love you forever" type image.. :)

many thanks..

and to please the mod's....    yeah, thanks,  that fleet ratio looks spot on to me ....   *cough cough*
DC
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Delly on December 26, 2009, 06:09:27 PM
Can we make a thread that has links to the game wiki and sticky it ? I'm seeing a lot of the same thread in this forum that has been answered a lot and can also be found in the wikki.

Some people are also failing at finding the wiki which is at the bottom of the game screen....
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Wyldhunt on December 26, 2009, 07:48:35 PM
Quote from: "Delly"
Some people are also failing at finding the wiki which is at the bottom of the game screen....
If they fail to find and/or read the wiki that is linked right next to the link that they used to come here, how could we ever possibly assume that they could figure out how to find a link in a topic in one of the forums once they got here?
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Delly on December 26, 2009, 07:57:05 PM
Caps... that always gets attentions in forum
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Marlboro Mann on December 28, 2009, 03:51:27 PM
Quote from: "The ZPM"
May I add:

8. Be civil, even if you're really, really mad that someone attacked you.  After all, that's the point of the game!  If you are rude or start sending obscenities to your attacker, you just made yourself a target again.  You don't know when, and you don't know where, but pissing someone off means they might even attack you when it is not profitable.  They might even send in 4 or 5 consecutive waves of unprofitable attacks to take down your defenses, for no other reason than you were rude.

Even though I've had no discussion with Brett Anderson, StarWars, 1500s, he has chosen to attack me.  Used IPBMs after he lost 25k in his first attack.  

While I consider him in an uncomplimentary way, I must say he is making me a better player, and more quickly, than I otherwise would have been.  And as some already know - there are many different ways to take down a fleet of 75, 135, or even 200 ships.  So come and attack, we'll...er....I'll be waiting.  Yeah, that's it - "Come 'n get me, Punk".
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: KhiemShiRoo on December 30, 2009, 10:01:02 PM
Thank You!!!! This thread is quite a wonderful resource and will take me a while to digest it all. I recommend every newbie and even seasoned vets of the game to read this thread.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Master_Blaster6 on January 03, 2010, 05:06:15 PM
I agree. Very interesting reading for a newbeeeeee.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: BentLightyear on January 04, 2010, 04:15:07 PM
I keep checking back every so often, hoping for a new nugget. :P
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: mrjay on January 05, 2010, 06:58:30 PM
Thanks for the heads up i haven't been playing the game that long but you just confirmed what i was thinking when i got bored doing mission and decided to look for inactive planets to raid to level up and thanks for the tip on building up my new colony faster.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Gordo on January 07, 2010, 03:36:12 PM
I have a friend who just signed up. He was assigned a planet 30 galaxies away, too far for mutual support. Is there a way he can cancel that planet and start over in the same galaxy as me? I read the part about abandoning a planet, but he would have to build up enough resources to obtain a Gaia class, which would take some time. Is it possible if he cancels his account and begins again? Does he have an option to choose where his planet will be?

Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, I'm fairly new to this game. But so far I love it!


Report this post
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: President Penny on January 07, 2010, 06:49:26 PM
Gordo... I'm going to take a guess at this and say you can't request a starting location.  They are random and determined by the computer when you join.  So what you CAN do is send your friend some resources to help him create that GIA and move his base of operations close to you.  This would be legal since I'm assuming your friend is ranked lower then you and it would be PULLING, which is ok.  Now 30 galaxies would be a lot of hydro it will be costly but the LONG run benefit of being able to help each other ninja attacks and so forth will be priceless.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: RipKill on January 11, 2010, 10:38:36 PM
just wondering if position 1 colonies are usually warmer than position 15 colonies..   (as position 1 is usually closest to the virtual sun in that system) ??
and also do colder planets produce more hydrogen from their mine levels..?

Thanks, and happy hunting all..

Ps... any sign of a moon yet devs...??   :D
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Wyldhunt on January 12, 2010, 03:13:03 AM
Quote from: "RipKill"
just wondering if position 1 colonies are usually warmer than position 15 colonies..   (as position 1 is usually closest to the virtual sun in that system) ??
and also do colder planets produce more hydrogen from their mine levels..?

Thanks, and happy hunting all..
Yep. Hydro and Helios solar production are both based upon temperature. The warmer the planet, the more energy from Helios. The colder the planet, the more Hydrogen from hydro mines. So, distant planets tend to produce more hydrogen.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Aaria.moon on February 02, 2010, 03:01:06 PM
Expansive players Guide - The First Two Weeks

Colonize ASAP

Here's the quickest way I found to gain points and get your colonies pumping out resources.

-The goal is to get higher Artificial Intelligence research and the gaia ship

-Don't bother with the poseidon or dionysus until later, inactives will supply you for a good while. No defenses until you get bigger too, don't listen to the others ;)

Follow these directions exactly for best results. There is general advice at the end of this topic to improve your efficiency for players up to rank 900!!!

****Read the wiki there is a walkthrough to get you up to the game basics.****

Starting the game- **STAGE ONE** (Upgrade your mines)

-Research and building goals for stage one
-Research lab level 1
-Energy tech level 1
-Jet drive level 2 (ASAP)
-Shipyard level 2 (ASAP)
-AI tech level 3

-These research levels will give you the ability to do the bulk of your missions.
-Use missions to fuel the upgrade of your mines.
-Upgrade mines according to build time, if one takes 15 minutes and another takes 12 minutes, build the mine that takes 12 minutes.
-Build until your energy is in the red, this will ensure that you aren't wasting energy.
-Your mines will operate at slightly less than optimal but you will buld an upgraded solar array right afterwards.
-Continue upgrading until you get research lab level 3.


Starting the game- **STAGE TWO** (Scouting out inactives)

-Research and building goals for stage two
-Research lab level 3
-Espionage level 2
-Jet drive level 3
-AI tech level 5

-You can now scout out inactives!!!
-As soon as you get your first three ship types you should start raiding inactives.
-First three ships are Atlas, Artemis, and Hermes probe
-Raiding takes a lot longer than doing missions but can net you up to 2-3 times more resources. You also don't have to repeat a mission every 2-3 minutes.
-inactives are players with (in) next to their names.
- Don't start until you have 4 hermes probes then its time to go on a probe-fest!!
-start sending a single probe to every inactive planet 10 systems up and down of you
-Keep the espionage reports that say they have over 19k resources and toss the rest.

-Then send a ship to raid each different colony, delete the espionage report after you are done.
-You get 50% of the resources from the colony you attack. So make sure you've got enough cargo space to hold all the booty!!!!
-Send one atlas transport per 10k resources on the planet. (include an artemis if there is an atlas still on site)


Starting the game- **STAGE THREE** (Scouting out inactives)

-Research and building goals for stage three
-Pulse drive level 3
-Energy tech level 1
-Ship yard level 4
-AI tech level 7

-Once you've got the research above completed you can build the Gaia ship.
-The gaia ship is your way of building colonies.
-You will be on a colony building spree now.
-Build one gaia ship at a time, and save 15k ore, 10k crystal, and 2k hydrogen.
-Send the gaia to colonize a planet in the 4-9 slots of your system or beyond. DO NOT BUILD IN 1-3 or 10-15!!! You will demolish those planets early in the game so do not waste your resources on them now!!!!
-Continue this pattern until you have all 8 colony slots filled.
-Once a day use one fleet to send a convoy to each of your colonies.
-Take resources from your main colony and send it to the weakest colony to the strongest and keep repeating.
-As the convoy goes through the colonies use the resources collected to upgrade mines/solar array
-When the convoy returns to your homeworld use the resources to research and upgrade one mine/solar array

********As you continue to build your colonies aim towards researching towards pulse drive 5 and AI tech level 8*****

Starting the game- **STAGE FOUR** (Double time)

-Research and building goals for stage three
-Pulse drive level 5 (ASAP)

-This research doubles your turn around time for raids.
-The atlas' engine speed is upgraded to pulse drive for a 2x bonus plus 100% for the pulse drives 5 levels at 20%.
-This will mean you can explore further into your galaxy.
-Expand your espionage missions to 30 systems up and down.
-Save reports where the player has 15k resources and over, toss the rest.
-Keep raiding and expanding your colonies.
-You should have 9 colonies all with level 12 and above mines in less than two weeks.

After this it is up to you what your goals are. Either disband your colony with the least fields and join with other alliance members for protection and attack purposes or build defenses or attack fleets. I'd recommend researching towards the Athena class as you will begin to suck the inactives dry.

******General playing tips*******

This guide does not go for the poseidon or dionysus class ships ASAP since the return from raiding inactives is the best in the early stages.

During your entire raid period you will be using atlas' their speed is superior to the hercules once your research is completed. Also, anybody you may be attacking will have inferior defenses allowing you to wipe out their fleets and defenses before your atlas' have a chance to detonate.

Build up to a level 4 nuclear plant if your energy tech is 5 when your solar array is 13. Once you get level 10 energy tech upgrade to level 5. For a colony in slot 4 you get 38 energy per solar sattelite, so these become the best resource/energy after you get solar array level 15. Building anything else is a waste before lvl 13 and lvl 15 solar array.

When salvaging debris from a planet ONLY THE DIONYSUS CAN COLLECT DEBRIS. You have to go to the planet in the galaxy screen and click on the planet sign next to the debris to initiate. This mission takes extremely long(4-6 hours) so make sure that you are going to get at least 3k resources per hour of mission time.



____________________

per second is harvesting, second is raids, third is mines, fourth is expeditions, 5th is missions.

This is because you aren't online 24 hours per day. Even then, my mines make more per day than my best missions plus expeditions combined if i was on 24 hours a day. I do occassionally catch an inactive with 150k plus resources which is AWESOME for resources. Even better, I find a noob who had built up tons of weak ships who I can attack and build a 200k debris field without losing a single ship.

To get the most from your inactives aim for 3k per hour for your raids. Do a probe rush, go from system to system espionaging every inactive there is, keep the profitable reports, and discard the bad ones. Go for the most profitable ASAP, 10k per atlas (I only use atlas' now that I have pulse 6). Delete the report after you've sent enough missions to make it unprofitable. You get 50% of resources on a planet per raid.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: CreoleLakerFan on March 30, 2010, 12:00:35 AM
Quote from: "codename_B"
Ehh... a matter of clarity, if you've got a target with a rather sizeable debris field it's good to send the harvesters ahead of the attacking fleet so that they land about 10 minutes after your attack hits (so that noone else snipes your debris field)

10 Minutes is a good target to shoot for.  However, it's not really necessary.  Recyclers are SO slow that with Level 10 Jet Drive (my current level, for example) it will take 1:32:32 for a Dionysus to arrive at that debris field from an adjacent planet slot.  The only time a player can beat you to a newly formed debris field is if they anticipate it and send a fleet ahead of yours to arrive in time to collect the debris.

Which means you have just been the victim of a Ninja attack, and the debris field has been formed from the bits of YOUR ships.  In which case you have larger problems than the fact that someone else got to your debris field first.

For the topic of our next post ... Diplomacy Mode.  :)
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Noldi on March 31, 2010, 03:45:31 PM
This question must be better asked in the Noob forum, but here goes...

Just as a rule of thumb, at what point would you say you're ready to move up from raiding inactives to attacking active players?

When you've got a colony or two and built your first Pos? Athena?

Something else? Would just like to hear opinions.


====>>  :ugeek:
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Darth Nefarious on March 31, 2010, 06:03:17 PM
I hit my very first "real" target yesterday.  Its fun stuff.  Though I'm in a precarious position.  Not strong enough to repel someone that wants me bad enough but strong enough I better get ready for it.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Jamescool on March 31, 2010, 08:40:20 PM
This game could be HUGE, if it would let "casual" players play. You almost have to be on this game 24/7 to stay alive.  It also allows "expert" veteran game players to pick on newer players way too easily, thus making them give up and leave the game.  I don't see this game growing much until this is changed.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Darth Nefarious on March 31, 2010, 09:24:44 PM
I would agree with that.  I'm guilty of hitting very low level inactives, blowing up their only ship and cleaning out their mines.  They may or may not come back anyway, but if they do, they'll bail after seeing this.  I can also see that once I hit 5k resources spent, I'm going to have issues competing with the very highly ranked players near me.  I understand its part of the game, but the newer player issue is a big one.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Noldi on April 01, 2010, 12:18:23 AM
Quote from: "Aaria.moon"

Starting the game- **STAGE TWO** (Scouting out inactives)

-Keep the espionage reports that say they have over 19k resources and toss the rest.
-Then send a ship to raid each different colony, delete the espionage report after you are done.

=========

Starting the game- **STAGE THREE** (Scouting out inactives)

-Save reports where the player has 15k resources and over, toss the rest.

So when you first start raiding inactives, you look for ones with 19K resources or more, then later on, when you start building colonies, you look for inactives with 15K resources to raid?

Is that what you meant to say? And if so, why do you raid poorer worlds later in your development?

==========>>  :o  :ugeek:  :o
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: CreoleLakerFan on April 08, 2010, 09:39:00 PM
Quote from: "Jamescool"
This game could be HUGE, if it would let "casual" players play. You almost have to be on this game 24/7 to stay alive.  It also allows "expert" veteran game players to pick on newer players way too easily, thus making them give up and leave the game.  I don't see this game growing much until this is changed.

I don't agree with this at all.  You merely have to learn to protect your resources.  You have newbie protection in the beginning from the REALLY big players that can take advantage of you.  Anyone who has half a brain and can read find their way to this board learns that Fleet and Resource saving is key to existence.

There is also the wiki, and most important, alliances.  Sometimes it takes a while to find the right group of people to play with, but alliances is the lifeblood of this game.  Anyone playing solo is going to get bored eventually, and IF they make it far enough to get out of Newbie protection status on their own, they are going to find that they are no match against the well-coordinated efforts of an alliance.

So the key to this game, I think, is getting into an alliance, and playing with other people.  THAT is where the real fun comes in.  And good alliances help their young members by training them, and protecting them where necessary.

I've been playing for about 4-5 months now ... I never had the problem you speak of.  Oh sure, there were some big bad bright red guys who came along and attacked my homeworld; I made a couple of mistakes, but I learned from it.  And I forgot to save one of the fleets on one of my colonies one night, and someone came along and destroyed it over night, but I learned from it.  And once I decided that my defenses were strong enough to put some ships in the queue overnight, and someone came along and busted through my defenses like they were butter, but I learned from it.

Newbie protection is working just fine.  If people can't learn from their mistakes, then have MUCH larger issues in their life than losing a couple hundred thousand worth of resources in an online universe.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Callum Roberts on May 02, 2010, 07:58:13 AM
the game doesn't need 24/7 play i play about an hour a day and i'm doing well i can be attacked by kttmn he's probed me but hasn't come near me because i FLEETSAVE same for Kenneth we were having a chat about his probes very friendly he seems nice that everytime he's probed i haven't had anything worth attacking as i FLEETSAVE and the one time he saw something worth it i was online and messaged him 1 hour a day spread throughout the day is all that is needed if you play the game right.
ps NOB can train you very well.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Aaria.moon on May 02, 2010, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: "Noldi"
Quote from: "Aaria.moon"

Starting the game- **STAGE TWO** (Scouting out inactives)

-Keep the espionage reports that say they have over 19k resources and toss the rest.
-Then send a ship to raid each different colony, delete the espionage report after you are done.

=========

Starting the game- **STAGE THREE** (Scouting out inactives)

-Save reports where the player has 15k resources and over, toss the rest.

So when you first start raiding inactives, you look for ones with 19K resources or more, then later on, when you start building colonies, you look for inactives with 15K resources to raid?

Is that what you meant to say? And if so, why do you raid poorer worlds later in your development?

==========>>  :o  :ugeek:  :o

It's an insanely old guide and intended for absolute noobs. Heck I wrote that the third week I was playing. I'll write a better one some day, or hopefully somebody else will in the next 4 months.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: the enforcer on May 02, 2010, 10:14:19 PM
you could say that yes it is ok to hit lower rez worlds but that is because you hopefully have higher ai so you can be running more at a time.

although 19k is a bit low i raid if they have 50k+ of lootable resources.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Aaria.moon on May 02, 2010, 10:23:28 PM
It was an old guide, I don't hit anything unless they have at least 100k res sitting on the planet now, and I don't even scan inactives. An inactive is (i) or (iN) or (in) not only (in) like I put in there. I had 19k for a reason though, that is the best you can get doing missions.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Shotmagnet on June 20, 2010, 05:57:53 PM
Quote from: "noldi"
...at what point would you say you're ready to move up from raiding inactives to attacking active players?
I think it's more a question of how much trouble you might cause for yourself, raiding an active, than hitting someone inactive.

Active players will tend to take a raid personally and will likewise tend to come gunning for the player who raided them. It doesn't take much imagination to guess what will happen next, and before you know it you're maybe involved in a little teacup-tempest war with someone a couple of systems away that's consuming more in terms of res and ships than the original raid netted you.

Raiding an active might also push that player into joining an alliance, with that individual deciding that with an alliance backing him or her, there's no reason not to return the 'favor' you did him or her. Again, not a lot of imagination required to guess what will happen next.

I suppose a lot of it depends on your playing style, though. I'm content to leave my neighbors be and tend to my colonies. I don't build as fast as someone else who might conduct more attacks, and I find that I need to run missions in order to get some things done, but that's okay with me.

The time that I can spend playing SC is not great, so I want to keep a low pro and make friends with my neighbors. I'm known in my parts as someone willing to lend a hand, and who always has something to trade. I've made a good many friends who in a lot of cases are also powerful allies, as a result. They don't want to lose their trading partner, and they're willing to fight to protect their ally because he's an excellent source of C, H, and/or O. They're also willing to work hand-in-glove with me if I have something that needs doing, to include nipping potential trouble-makers in the bud, before they can make real trouble.

The relationships I have cultivated in this regard seem to me a lot more worthwhile than what I imagine I would have found myself with, were I more aggressive. I have my own little informal alliance of like-minded associates, who are in fact a lot more helpful to me than my alliance is. They're also a lot more helpful to my alliance, since I get and share (with the permission of the like-minded folks I talked about a bit ago) information with my alliance regarding matters local. Maybe that sounds like so much intangible nonsense, but I've been promoted twice by my alliance for my efforts.

But there's something to be said for playing style, and it's not as if I've never seen an active that I wanted to hit.


Shot
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Noldi on June 26, 2010, 07:25:39 PM
Quote from: "progman63"
The Wiki does not have half the material listed in these forums, and no strategy guide at all.

The wiki DOES have the 8 rules to play by, which includes instructions on fleetsaving and other basic strategy info for beginners. It served me very well until I learned my way around.

But you HAVE TO READ IT!!
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: James Ricker on July 13, 2010, 11:21:27 PM
I have a Question I know all about fleet saving been doing great with it. Until today I was attack and I could not do anything about it. I had my Fleet on one of my Planets comming back from a transport mission and was attack 2 seconds after returning. I would have put it up to bad timming but it happen so three of my fleet at the same time as they came back within a minute of each other the where attack. I could not redeploy them because destoryed is there a special Espionage that I don't have.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Hawkins on July 13, 2010, 11:33:15 PM
Read about the oracle, someone probably oracle locked you. I've had it happen to me and ninjaed the prick at the same time. It was a sweet feeling. Still lost about half of my fleet.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Sandor Clegane on August 07, 2010, 09:27:19 PM
One way to get around this is to DEPLOY your transports to the destination instead.  This way, if they lock on you, you can recall and avoid destruction.  You just have to remember to deploy the transports back to their origin later.  More than once, Ive forgotten that step and the next day, tried to move resources with no ships available!

Another option is to transport between moons.  They cannot be oracled.  Of course, this means you need at least two moons.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Dread Pirate Ragnar on August 08, 2010, 03:07:28 AM
If you transport with just one moon (at either end of the transport) you have cut the chances of someone spying you in half. I know if I even get a moon I'll be basing most of my fleet off of it.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Sandor Clegane on August 08, 2010, 04:06:05 PM
took me about a month, but I managed to get a moon around all of my colonies.. average was about 9 tries with 1250 arties each.  Now I do all my ship movements between moons, except for the trucks which ship the planet production to my moons.

I wonder how long it will be before BFG makes moons visible to oracles???
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Callum Roberts on August 08, 2010, 04:20:41 PM
Could someone write a strategy of mine efficiency and how to balance mines whith ships defenses and research
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: bluedevil310 on March 12, 2011, 09:27:39 AM
Quote from: "mrgrynch"
One way to get around this is to DEPLOY your transports to the destination instead.  This way, if they lock on you, you can recall and avoid destruction.  You just have to remember to deploy the transports back to their origin later.  More than once, Ive forgotten that step and the next day, tried to move resources with no ships available!
 
...And a way around that is to launch two deploy missions- loads in/empties out. All said and done it will burn 4x the hydrogen of a single transport, and will tie up an additional fleet slot, but it will keep your ships much safer from Oracles, and get your fleets setteled in for the night twice as fast.
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: bluedevil310 on March 12, 2011, 09:48:21 AM
Quote from: "Callum roberts"
Could someone write a strategy of mine efficiency and how to balance mines whith ships defenses and research
It all depends on what your objectives are and what you have for resources around you.  I find that most people's ore production is greater than everything else, so raiding inactives nets me ore.  The more important techs (speed, AI, esp) are crystal heavy, so build up crystal mines. Then you have power considerations vs planet size, but this shouldn't be a problem if you've been good enough to wait and develop only large planets.  If you are in an alliance of, or surounded by, friendly hydro thirsty fleeters, you could theoreheticaly build huge hydrogen synths and engauge in profitable trade agreements.  Look at what you want for fleet or defense ratios, look at the o/c/h ratios to achieve that target, and set your production levels accordingly.  Your style of play will likely change as you develop, but there are always advantageous ways of dumping extra res- if not in a tech, then in a trade..
Title: Re: Strategy Guide
Post by: Topgun11 on June 30, 2014, 09:00:00 AM
Read about the oracle, someone probably oracle locked you. I've had it happen to me and ninjaed the prick at the same time. It was a sweet feeling. Still lost about half of my fleet.

You can get out of Oracle locks without ninjas, it takes advance planning to do so though. For new players its best to use deploy whenever possible and to get as many moons as quick as possible.