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Author Topic: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off  (Read 1545 times)

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Offline DikmansRevenge

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Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« on: September 26, 2014, 04:22:55 PM »
I simmed the battle using battlementat (which has been accurate in every sim up to now) and then in the actual battle I am wiped out completely.

The universe is uni3.
The target is a npc.

Here is the probe report;


To: Dikman's Revenge
Date: 2014-09-26 13:57:06 UTC
Encounter Floating Colony ‎[x:xxx:xe] has:

RESOURCES:
* ore: 4,416,654
* crystal: 7,499,878
* hydrogen: 5,874,430

KRUG'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 5,694
* Atlas Class Cargo: 65,186
* Erebus Fighter: 6,579
* Apollo Class Fighter: 3
* Hercules Class Cargo: 526
* Dionysus Class Recycler: 10,338
* Curetes Class Cruiser: 12

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 24,778
* Laser Cannon: 122,758
* Space Mine: 17,654
* Pulse Cannon: 16

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 16
* Shield Tech: 16
* Weapons Tech: 16

Attack | Espionage | Harvest


The chance of your probes being intercepted is 100%

my techs are all level 14.

I attacked with 100 Thanatos. The sim says I will bounce off of the target with no losses for me and minor losses for the npc which I can then harvest.

I have attached the sim and the actual outcome.

Here is the sim;


and here is the actual battle;





Offline DikmansRevenge

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2014, 04:37:04 PM »
I have sent a message to the admin of battlementat too.

Offline kru

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2014, 04:41:27 PM »
well my first 10 calcs show you get decimated

*edit....

pretty strange....i tried calcing 10 times and ran about 100 sims, in each case you lost....now, the clac is showing you would loose, but not loose any ships :/

odd
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 04:43:26 PM by kru »
gT brn b Th rk


Offline DikmansRevenge

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2014, 04:48:19 PM »
That is the point. If you look at the picture I posted you will see that it is set for uni3. And I am not trying to win the battle. I am trying to create a small pile of debris to harvest. And that is what the sim indicates will happen. I lose no ships and create a small pile of debris to harvest.

Offline DikmansRevenge

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2014, 04:52:02 PM »
Use your link and use the drop down box to change uni's and it will recalculate for each uni where the Thanatos is present. You will notice that the Thanatos are never lost.

But that is not the result of the actual battle.

So, either the game is broken or mentat is broken.

Offline commander abаб

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2014, 04:59:30 PM »
Every time I press simulate, press simulate in the link Kru provided, using the LBA, you lose all the thanatos every time.

The LBA is all I have available as flash is not available on my tablet.

Neither is broken.  There are other threads where the same type of attack is used and all the thatos thanatos were lost.  It has to do with your shields being less than the enemy's weapon rating.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 05:07:23 PM by commander abаб »

Offline DikmansRevenge

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2014, 05:08:29 PM »
So, the Large Battle Algorithm is the screw factor.

Live and learn I suppose.

Offline kru

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2014, 05:13:26 PM »
  It has to do with your shields being less than the enemy's weapon rating.

yes that is correct.  Thanatos are very weak in that circumstance where shield tech is lower than the weapons tech.  In most circs, thans are pretty much wasted against even lasers lol, but, from what i understand, thans are pretty weak against spacemines anyway (sure somebody will correct that)

So, the Large Battle Algorithm is the screw factor.

Live and learn I suppose.

NO! The LBA is much better than the previous algorithm, and infact is much more reliable.  Also as far as i am aware, the LBA only comes into effect after a certian degree of units. ! million? 10 million? something like that (sure Matt H will correct me)

As with the above post, take care as to what you attack with thans....higher or equal weapons tech to your own shield tech can yield a destruction of your fleet
gT brn b Th rk

Offline Zarchne

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 05:45:19 PM »
As with the above post, take care as to what you attack with thans....higher or equal weapons tech to your own shield tech can yield a destruction of your fleet

But Battle Mentat should know that.  This is almost interesting enough for me to try to figure it out.  Maybe later.

(I wouldn't say Thanatos are "very weak" in any circumstances... it's just that they are much weaker against Lasers (and Curetes) in that circumstance than otherwise.  The deal with Space Mines is only that they don't have RF against them.)

Offline kru

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2014, 05:52:20 PM »
But Battle Mentat should know that.  This is almost interesting enough for me to try to figure it out.  Maybe later.

(I wouldn't say Thanatos are "very weak" in any circumstances... it's just that they are much weaker against Lasers (and Curetes) in that circumstance than otherwise.  The deal with Space Mines is only that they don't have RF against them.)

well, i refer to 'weak' in these circumstances where the weapons is higher than shield, and only against specific units..

for example, higher weapons on an attacking/defending fleet of erebus/moros can reap havoc on them, lasers are also pretty nasty.  But yes, they are by no means a 'weak' unit.

one thing i have learned across all unis which have thans, is to be weary of attacking with thans against a traget that has a higher weapons tech than my shield.

*edit

Also, bear in mind that erebus are devasting (as are moros) as they bypass the shield completely as well as firing 3 shots per round, and they are both a ship that can kull thanatos
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 05:54:22 PM by kru »
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Offline kru

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 05:58:28 PM »
But Battle Mentat should know that.  This is almost interesting enough for me to try to figure it out.  Maybe later.

Indeed, even in this game with all its codes and algortihms, there still applies a RNG, in that every shot fired by every ship/defence could impact on the shield, hull or even miss.

Basics would indicate, that 100 ships vs 150k there is more chance of impact upon shield/hull per round with 6,579 erebus in the battle, all firing 3 shots per ound, all bypassing shields, that equates 19.737 shots per round, and even the RNG would indicate many shots impacting directly on the hull...

What might help would be the round by round battle
gT brn b Th rk

Offline Phil M

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2014, 07:34:02 PM »
uni 3 should only use the LBA, it dramatically changes sims

BFG moved to the LBA for all battles in uni 3 and the sim shows you lose all your ships.

so that much would be spot on
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 07:38:14 PM by Phil M »
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Offline commander abаб

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2014, 07:48:19 PM »
how can this be?????


http://forum.playstarfleet.com/index.php?topic=21290.msg253992#msg253992

is another thread on this topic
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 07:54:38 PM by commander abаб »

Offline TauLurin

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Re: Battlementat sim and actual battle are way off
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2014, 06:17:58 PM »
Uh... I hope everybody here knows that battlementat is not associated with BFG and that it is actually a third party site created by other players of SFC.
When all is said and done, the plain and simple fact of the matter always holds true: If you did it then it really is your fault.