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June 16, 2019, 06:53:58 AM

Author Topic: Oracle  (Read 21926 times)

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Offline tbunny

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #570 on: March 03, 2010, 05:16:25 PM »
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: Let's be REAL here folks... The Deploy method of Fleetsaving is RETARDED and a hydro wast... Everyone likes the harvest method because it allows you to schedule important things... like sleep...
 :evil: I've said it several times... Give commanders the ability to modify ship's speed in flight and I'll be ok with the Oracle... For now.. I think it's going to eventually ruin the game...

+1
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Offline Bleys

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #571 on: March 03, 2010, 05:28:52 PM »
I think the developers were trying to make fleetsaving less trivial and more strategic. I think they were also adding features that would require more resources, to encourage longer term play. I think they were trying to offer a way to "catch" big fleets.

I will tell you a story. A friend and I in OG had a miner that traded us his Hydro. He went inactive, but he was pretty turtled up. One day, my friend sends me a PM on MSN saying "hey, I just spotted 12 RIPs incoming to our friend who is inactive, do you still have him on your buddy list? Lets defend and ninja". I had already removed him when he went inactive so I could beat down his planets (I waited until he was (i), BTW, I try to avoid using "insider info" for any resource gain in this game) but my friend set up a Ninja and blew the RIPs away. The attacking player didnt even consider that it could possibly happen, hadnt looked at the planet again, etc. It was very cool, and even the attacker who lost his RIPs applauded the hit.

People with Oracles are already backing off them. They are running out of hydro. Its like the Looking Glass. You could spend hours staring into it and never really see anything. Yeah, some small fleets will be hit. Rebuild and get on with it, especially in Extreme. I really dont knnow what to say here anymore. Losses are part of this game. Learning to avoid them and keep your fleet and resources secure is a HUGE part of being successful. Too many players dont seem even remotely willing to learn or put effort into it, they jsut want ... I dont know, Single Player or something, I guess.

And Victor, stop demonstratinng how poor you are at gaming, ok? We all get that you cant grasp the concept here. Go play Hello Kitty Online, I hear its wildly popular and pretty simple.
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Offline evb

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #572 on: March 03, 2010, 06:00:26 PM »
I still say we need the ability to change speed AND destination while in transit.
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Offline tbunny

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #573 on: March 03, 2010, 06:07:05 PM »
I don't care about losing ships. It's that I am losing some control over my level of play. I've had great enjoyment, knowing I could 100% guarantee not to lose some of my fleet/res by fine tuning the harvest time/distance.
Now I have a limited deploy distance/time and the newbies have NOTHING. if they start with one planet, they may not be good picking, but they will learn to FRS the usual way.
Then when any of us make the mid-ranks, we need to deploy our goodies in a way that ensure half of our 'stuff' has a high likelyhood of being unuseable on the next login. Half of the enjoyment of the leisure of the game is lost at that point.
I'm not saying it's an unenjoyable game, but the ratio of effort to pleasure has been tipped toward more effort. It'll be a lot easier to go do laundry or clean my bathroom than play to the level of satisfaction I had before.
Play the game the way you want to play. Stop fleetsaving, abandon and start a new colony, attack everything in sight without running it through battlecalc. All those things are likely to add excitement. I don't care. I do care about my little world, and SFC is quickly falling down my priority list.
That's all. I'm not interested in explaining my style of play, or the tricks of the trade, or the pros and cons of the features that the devs have chosen. These new features are not proving to be any more appealing to me than the pleasant routine I have enjoyed. But, the dev's job is to add features that 'encourage' more time/effort/investment be it per player or by the addition of new players. I believe the appeal 'bandwidth' of the game will be narrowed not expanded.
So, there you have it. I'll play the way I wish, you play the way you wish. Neither is superior to the other to anyone but the player.  So please stop insulting or criticizing people's play styles. It does nothing to add to the quality or enjoyment of the game.
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Offline LeFluff

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #574 on: March 03, 2010, 06:16:48 PM »
I'm surprised every time someone claims that using the Oracle will cause them to blow the hyrdo budget for the year.  It's 10k a hit, right?  Well, obviously it's not something you use to scan every single planet in sight.  It's that tool you use to finetune your attacks on the big targets.  It's the one you use on the targets you've probed in the past and know to be heavy hitters.  You don't use it for the smallfry, you use it to guarantee a hit on a worthwhile target, someone with a sizable fleet and plenty of resources.  It's a scalpel, not a hammer.  A smart player with an Oracle is a terrifying thing, because they know how to use it with precision.  I know this, because I've seen the after-action reports where major members of my alliance got clobbered, and hard.

In Extreme, I have plenty of hydrogen.  Enough to afford a few choice scans of dedicated targets, if I had an Oracle and the wherewithal to use it.  And I'm nowhere near a major player, or an aggressive one.  I shudder to think what someone with ambition or green in their hearts would use it for.  

I've outlined all of my objections to the Oracle, changes to fleetsave, moon-based technology, and general disruption of game balance.  I've also outlined a serious of potential solutions that would balance things out and hopefully prevent the worst-case scenarios that are already happening.  I'd love to hear BFG's responses, but I suspect they're just funneling us all into this thread and forgetting about us, like an electronic oubliette.    

The bottom line is this: it was unfair of them to introduce these features into games well under way.  Had they started up a new universe in which moons and oracles were present from Day One, and we knew this, and it was part of the establishing framework of the game, then there'd be no reason to complain.  Just like Extreme not allowing diplomatic mode.  Either you come into the game knowing this and willing to play under such conditions, or you don't.  But spending weeks or months playing the game one way (and learning to play it from the forums and the wiki and more experienced friends), then abruptly, without warning, having the rug yanked out from underneath you, and being told that either you adapt to this whole new system you're stuck with, or else...  

Before, the game might have been a little ruthlessly brutal to newcomers (come out of (n), get blown up, fall back to (n), repeat) but at least it still had an element of fairness that allowed anyone to play it at their leisure.  Now it's unbalanced, there's way too much random chance involved, and it favors a specific kind of play.  

At least I got a full night's sleep, that has to count for something.
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Offline Perseus

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #575 on: March 03, 2010, 06:19:28 PM »
As it currently stands, I have enough hydro on my homeworld and colonies to use an oracle about 300 times.

10k hydro is nothing. Make it cost 500k hydro. That would balance out nicely.
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Offline Samiel

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #576 on: March 03, 2010, 06:40:59 PM »
I realized and understand all of the newer players concerns about the oracle. I also KNOW that if your willing to set your bigoted opinions aside for 2 seconds and consider the oracle you would see why it is a necessary evil. the oracle was introduced at this point because SFC was starting to decline. do you guys remember ZPM? do you remember Akkarin? those guys had been playing from the very beginning. they were amazing players. wanna know why they quit? boredom. plain and simple.  

The fact of the matter is, at the high end of the game once mines and research and playing the "expand your empire game" gets old or too cost intensive to continue (I am talking about when your next level of solar array costs in the several millions of resources to build) what do you do? well you fleet, you amass a big fleet and go looking for other peoples resources and fleets to take. And that is the goal of the game. its a war game. I think it is great if you just want to play in D-mode or play defensively, I have no problem with that. the most fun part of the game however, is when your on the hunt looking for other peoples fleets. when you feel the adrenaline running in your veins because your not sure if the opponent is going to outmaneuver you.

The end to Fleeters and the endgame content as it were, is fleetsaving. SFC suffered from chronic fleetsavers. people who were so good there is no WAY you would ever get their fleet. Kudos to the Horseman for showing us some of the first reverse ninjas. I said it before in older posts if they did not introduce oracle then the older players would start to quit because without some kind of technical math theory to pull off reverse ninjas and the like, it becomes boring to play the game. the only thing you can do at that point is to go on "tours" of the galaxies and prey on newbies. if anything the oracle will facilitate more combat on the higher end and less energy towards fleeters preying on the weak.

I have played SFC from early on. I have also played other game and was fairly high ranked back in the day. I lost 3 fleets, bigger than anything that most of you have ever seen (here in SFC) in other game to Phalanx (oracle) hits. and you know what? its not a big thing. the people who have the most fun are the ones who pick up and rebuild and keep playing.
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Offline Vanessa

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #577 on: March 03, 2010, 06:50:31 PM »
Quote from: "tbunny"
I don't care about losing ships. It's that I am losing some control over my level of play. I've had great enjoyment, knowing I could 100% guarantee not to lose some of my fleet/res by fine tuning the harvest time/distance.

It's that "100% guarantee" that makes a game boring.  Having a very easy way to evade an attack essentially makes attacking useless.  It's more exciting to fight someone who is actually playing the game and will fight back.  The game gets rather sad if all we do is dodge.

That said, it's equally boring when the oracle gives such perfect information that it becomes too easy to beat someone down.  Of course ... the trick is finding the right target worthy of fighting before your hydro runs out.

Join my thread (see my sig), let's discuss this objectively!

Quote
Now I have a limited deploy distance/time and the newbies have NOTHING. if they start with one planet, they may not be good picking, but they will learn to FRS the usual way.

Then when any of us make the mid-ranks, we need to deploy our goodies in a way ..

This is true.  The lower ranks are probably not worthwhile to be scanned and attacked; so no "behavior modification" there.  The wiki has to be properly updated to make sure they learn how things change when they hit higher ranks.

Quote
These new features are not proving to be any more appealing to me than the pleasant routine I have enjoyed. ....
...
So, there you have it. I'll play the way I wish, you play the way you wish. Neither is superior to the other to anyone but the player.  So please stop insulting or criticizing people's play styles. It does nothing to add to the quality or enjoyment of the game.

Actually, I prefer to learn and be educated as to how I can play better.  If I were to always insist on "my way", I would probably never grow and "mature".  Much of these "willing to take my lumps and learn" lessons are effective in both games and life.  And I prefer to use the same set of values I use in real life when I play a game.


But one of the few reasons I would stop playing a game is if it started interfering with life.  _That_ might actually be the case here for you and other players.
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Offline Victor Doom

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #578 on: March 03, 2010, 06:59:03 PM »
:evil: Captain.. I'm one of those avid Fleetsavers... and I think I do pretty well and have crushed a few fleets in my day... Thank you very much... I'm sure if I need lessons you'll be the one to teach.. right?.. KMA
 :evil: The Oracle's design is to eliminate fleetsaving and it is my humble opinion that it will destroy the game... the top dogs will STAY there because they'll just Oracle Ambush any potential rivals...
 :evil: I've already offered a very realistic solution... allow commanders the ability to change speed inflight... I can defeat any oracle ambush in this manner.. I don't think it's too much to ask that if I log on 30 minutes before my fleet arrives that I'm powerless to do nothing but watch my fleet get Oracle Ambushed and destroyed.... it's not realistic...
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Offline miracleofmagick

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #579 on: March 03, 2010, 07:20:53 PM »
Quote from: "Vanessa"
Actually, I prefer to learn and be educated as to how I can play better.  If I were to always insist on "my way", I would probably never grow and "mature".  Much of these "willing to take my lumps and learn" lessons are effective in both games and life.  And I prefer to use the same set of values I use in real life when I play a game.


+1

Quote from: "Victor Doom"
Captain.. I'm one of those avid Fleetsavers... and I think I do pretty well and have crushed a few fleets in my day... Thank you very much... I'm sure if I need lessons you'll be the one to teach.. right?.. KMA
 The Oracle's design is to eliminate fleetsaving and it is my humble opinion that it will destroy the game... the top dogs will STAY there because they'll just Oracle Ambush any potential rivals...
 I've already offered a very realistic solution... allow commanders the ability to change speed inflight... I can defeat any oracle ambush in this manner.. I don't think it's too much to ask that if I log on 30 minutes before my fleet arrives that I'm powerless to do nothing but watch my fleet get Oracle Ambushed and destroyed.... it's not realistic...
it doesn't eliminate fleet-saving, just alters it. If you don't want to adapt to the way the game changes, that's on you.  And we know your solution, you've included it in every post you've made. it would probably just save you some time to put it in your sig.
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Offline Victor Doom

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #580 on: March 03, 2010, 07:24:21 PM »
:evil: Yeah.. and I've also heard the solution to fleetsaving and that's a RETARDED option...
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Offline miracleofmagick

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #581 on: March 03, 2010, 07:26:55 PM »
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: Yeah.. and I've also heard the solution to fleetsaving and that's a RETARDED option...
well, if you don't like, it, have fun losing your ships
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Offline Victor Doom

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #582 on: March 03, 2010, 07:29:58 PM »
:evil: Goes right to my point... the Oracle was designed to eliminate fleetsaving... I've got a less retarded fix... Give commanders the option to change speeds inflight.... far less retarded and realistic...
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Offline A. Hachie

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #583 on: March 03, 2010, 07:32:50 PM »
Quote from: "miracleofmagick"
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
:evil: Yeah.. and I've also heard the solution to fleetsaving and that's a RETARDED option...
well, if you don't like, it, have fun losing your ships

Have fun losing your game,  when everyone quits,and it goes under.
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Offline tbunny

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Re: Oracle
« Reply #584 on: March 03, 2010, 07:33:12 PM »
Vanessa,
Perhaps you didn't understand, that I spoke from my own perspective about certainty. I'm not concerned about the opposing view. Harvest fleetsave is 100% in our OWN control. If I screw up, then I'll pay the consequences.
As for routine and your own way, believe it or not there may come times in your life that change is just chaos and not a learning experience. I play for my own reasons and NOT for others' enjoyment. If these do not intersect that's not my problem.
I am mature enough that I do not need to conform to anyone else's standard for acceptance or support.

I could make the argument that battlecalc is lazy for fleeters and raiders, but that doesn't change anything, nor is it productive. Again, I suggest if you want more challenge, try planning an attack without battlecalc.
Many complain about players in (d) mode. They just created another reason for people to do that.
I suggest we consider what is said by many of us raiders to surprised targets that want to know what they did to 'deserve' being attacked. The answer is nothing. I'm just playing a game. I do not need to best someone to prove myself. I hunt and plan, and don't feel superior, just a bit skillful and lucky.
You play with no sport with the oracle. It's like fishing with dynamite . . . in a barrel. I don't see what's so fun about trapping an opponent and watching how your 'guaranteed' attack move ever closer. Catching them by surprise is much more rewarding to me. Yes, it's hide and seek. Let's play with Superman and his xray vision now. How fun is that? You know my opinion, why argue?

I am not going to change how you play, Don't tell me what I "Should" do to change mine.
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