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Author Topic: About nuking other players  (Read 2653 times)

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andy nard1

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About nuking other players
« on: August 04, 2011, 03:33:38 PM »
This has been the latest ruling about nuking.

My original ticket


Aug-02 14:11 (EDT):
I think this has to be considered harassment...

The only think I will ever do is Nuke "Player A", Maybe someday, in a few years, once he gets the point.. I'll actually begin building a fleet again.

Jason, Aug-03 15:44 (EDT):
As missile strikes are legal for any reason, this isn't technically harassment.
Blue Frog Gaming Support


Aug-03 23:43 (EDT):
Technical is not harassment, but a player that states that he will only play to nuke another player has to be considered harassment.
Please clarify:
a) Nuke is never considered harassment
b) Can a player only play with the aim to nuke another player
Thanks

Jason, Aug-04 10:38 (EDT):
Missile strikes are legal for any reason, therefore they can't be considered harassment. Therefore if a player wants to play just to nuke other players that is legal.
Blue Frog Gaming Support


So, finally is clear that even if a player states that is nuking another one for no other purpose than nuking, BFG does not consider this harassment.  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
However we have the limit of 6 attacks to avoid bashing, and any attack if there are no ships must be profitable.
I cannot see any logic on that, but those are the rules that we have to live with.
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Offline llaubacher

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 03:42:36 PM »
Agreed, but to quote someone from StarTrek: "whoever said the human race was logical?".
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Offline Satok

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2011, 04:15:31 PM »
eally I am just happy that we have a rule we can understand. There is no grey area where one person gets in trouble for nuking and another does not. No one will get defenses back because the nuking was not legal.
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Satok de\'Tampa

Offline Vlad

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2011, 05:46:10 PM »
As we are on this subject.
Your request (#60035) has been deemed solved.

To review, comment and reopen the request, follow the link below:
http://starfleetcommander.zendesk.com/tickets/60035


Jason, Aug-04 13:06 (EDT):
It is not really possible for us to determine intent, and a player shouldn't be forced to attack just because the sent nukes. For example lets say you nuke a planet with the intent of attacking, however the player comes online before you send your attack. Sending an attack at that point makes no sense. Forcing a player to send an attack when they know that best case scenario the person will fleet save, and worst case scenario there ships will be destroyed is not fair to players. Therefore we believe that allowing missile strikes for any reason is the better option.

Blue Frog Gaming Support
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Offline Pharos

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2011, 05:57:23 PM »
Quote from: "Vlad"
As we are on this subject.
Your request (#60035) has been deemed solved.

To review, comment and reopen the request, follow the link below:
http://starfleetcommander.zendesk.com/tickets/60035


Jason, Aug-04 13:06 (EDT):
It is not really possible for us to determine intent, and a player shouldn't be forced to attack just because the sent nukes. For example lets say you nuke a planet with the intent of attacking, however the player comes online before you send your attack. Sending an attack at that point makes no sense. Forcing a player to send an attack when they know that best case scenario the person will fleet save, and worst case scenario there ships will be destroyed is not fair to players. Therefore we believe that allowing missile strikes for any reason is the better option.

Blue Frog Gaming Support

But they can determine intent with attacks??   So nice to be protected like that....   :roll:
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Offline Matt H

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 06:02:21 PM »
I understand that some of you are frustrated with the nuke rules. However, your original support ticket (as posted on these forums) forces us to make an assumption about a user (whether they are intent on harassing you or not) because I can't fathom any situation where a user sends a message in game that clearly demonstrates that they intend to harass. Should that be the case, let us know and we will gladly look into the issue further.

Without spending much time thinking about this, I can clearly find legitimate reasons for a player to to play only to nuke others. Let's say he's a member of a alliance and the player is the 'nuke specialist'. He's built up an incredibly high level missile silo and stocked it full of nukes. However, this player doesn't build fleets. Instead, he turtles and has 1,000 plasma cannons. His Alliance doesn't like another Alliance (let's call that Alliance "BFG" for fun). So to ensure that his Alliance can raid BFG's Planets at will he constantly nukes a nearby BFG planet to make sure it is available for plunder (this BFG planet has high mine levels that make it an especially good target. Maybe this BFG planet also has ships on it all time because the planet owner forgets to fleet save.) Is this harassment, or playing the game within the rules? I'd have to say it's a fair use of the game.

Regardless of the above scenario, I sense your still lingering frustration. But instead of complaining about the ruling you received, let's talk constructively. Let's discuss ideas to improve game play regarding nukes (and or attacks with fleets). Your constructive feedback is a million times more valuable to me when I talk with the rest of the team. For example, it's easier for me to say "Some of the community would really like it is we could explore X change." That gives us something to kick around. If I instead tell them, "Some of the community really hates X, but has offered no alternative" then it probably isn't going anywhere.

So, help me, help you.
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Offline Pharos

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2011, 06:09:14 PM »
Quote from: "Matt H"
I understand that some of you are frustrated with the nuke rules. However, your original support ticket (as posted on these forums) forces us to make an assumption about a user (whether they are intent on harassing you or not) because I can't fathom any situation where a user sends a message in game that clearly demonstrates that they intend to harass. Should that be the case, let us know and we will gladly look into the issue further.

Without spending much time thinking about this, I can clearly find legitimate reasons for a player to to play only to nuke others. Let's say he's a member of a alliance and the player is the 'nuke specialist'. He's built up an incredibly high level missile silo and stocked it full of nukes. However, this player doesn't build fleets. Instead, he turtles and has 1,000 plasma cannons. His Alliance doesn't like another Alliance (let's call that Alliance "BFG" for fun). So to ensure that his Alliance can raid BFG's Planets at will he constantly nukes a nearby BFG planet to make sure it is available for plunder (this BFG planet has high mine levels that make it an especially good target. Maybe this BFG planet also has ships on it all time because the planet owner forgets to fleet save.) Is this harassment, or playing the game within the rules? I'd have to say it's a fair use of the game.

Regardless of the above scenario, I sense your still lingering frustration. But instead of complaining about the ruling you received, let's talk constructively. Let's discuss ideas to improve game play regarding nukes (and or attacks with fleets). Your constructive feedback is a million times more valuable to me when I talk with the rest of the team. For example, it's easier for me to say "Some of the community would really like it is we could explore X change." That gives us something to kick around. If I instead tell them, "Some of the community really hates X, but has offered no alternative" then it probably isn't going anywhere.

So, help me, help you.

The biggest frustration to me is that, while I can see what your talking about, running attacks to whittle down defenses is also a valid tactic in many scenarios.  The ruling seems very bias to the effect that turtles have more protection than fleeters do.  It gives one group advantage over another, thus loosing gameplay balance.  

The fact that he stated that they cannot judge intent speaks to this misbalance.  Can BFG really judge intent on attacks but not on nukes to the effect that its fair?  The current rules on it seem to show otherwise.
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Offline Garak

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2011, 06:13:40 PM »
Now lets say that Planet BFG has ships and mines, but NO defenses, NO IPBMs, and NO ABMs. Player Dillweed launches one nuke at a time from Planet "I Don't Care About Profit", each one spaced 20 seconds apart. No communication between the two players has transpired.

How about that? Is that harassment?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 06:44:50 PM by Garak »
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andy nard1

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2011, 06:17:04 PM »
Quote
I understand that some of you are frustrated with the nuke rules. However, your original support ticket (as posted on these forums) forces us to make an assumption about a user (whether they are intent on harassing you or not) because I can't fathom any situation where a user sends a message in game that clearly demonstrates that they intend to harass. Should that be the case, let us know and we will gladly look into the issue further.

I think you have answered my ticket, and posting it here achieved the objective of getting a proper answer.
Jason could have replied, that in same instances nuking could be considered harassment, however he clearly stated that nuking is never harassment, even on the follow up that I made.
Moving on, I fully agree with your comments, and I am glad that you will look on case by case. The first ticket I sent was not an "theoretical scenario", it was a message that I received in game from a player commenting on a member of my alliance.

Quote
The only think I will ever do is Nuke "Player A", Maybe someday, in a few years, once he gets the point.. I'll actually begin building a fleet again.

I posted several days ago that the nuke rules cannot be the same in all universes.
In X2 there is no defense from a nuke harassment. While in original the ABM and nukes are balanced by the built time and the "lack" of resources, in X2 there is a large unbalance towards the nukes.
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Offline Matt H

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2011, 06:19:55 PM »
@Pharos
We may not ever be able to judge intent, but consider this:

If you can attack ad infinitum you can completely halt a player's progress and essentially revert them to a new player. Except that the endless attacks would prohibit them from building a fleet of any size, prohibit them from maintaining a reserve of any resources with which to attempt to rebuild, and, in my opinion, would force them to leave the game.

On the other hand, if I nuke you ad infinitum it can be annoying. However, it has no impact on your resources (if you don't rebuild defenses) or your fleet. So while your planet may be slightly more exposed, there is much less of an overall detriment to your play.

@Garak
Is that play style annoying? Probably so. But what is the damage done to Player BFG? None.
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Offline aaronhagel

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2011, 06:21:09 PM »
Since When do nukes take up a fleetslot? Or am i on drugs?
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Offline Matt H

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2011, 06:23:32 PM »
@Andy

If that was a message received by one of your alliance members, then I would encourage that member to submit a ticket detailing the time and date they received the message and the name of the individual who sent it. They should probably also note that I advised them to submit it so that Jason and I can discuss their situation fully when he receives the ticket.
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Offline llaubacher

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 06:27:28 PM »
>>>
Player Dillweed launches one nuke at a time from Planet "I Don't Care About Profit" until all their fleet slots are full (Lets say 15 IPBMs, each one spaced 20 seconds apart), then starts over as soon as their fleet slots become empty
<<<

I was under impression that nukes don't take fleet slots.
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Offline Pharos

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 06:30:32 PM »
Quote from: "Matt H"
@Pharos
We may not ever be able to judge intent, but consider this:

If you can attack ad infinitum you can completely halt a player's progress and essentially revert them to a new player. Except that the endless attacks would prohibit them from building a fleet of any size, prohibit them from maintaining a reserve of any resources with which to attempt to rebuild, and, in my opinion, would force them to leave the game.

On the other hand, if I nuke you ad infinitum it can be annoying. However, it has no impact on your resources (if you don't rebuild defenses) or your fleet. So while your planet may be slightly more exposed, there is much less of an overall detriment to your play.

Isn't that what the bashing limit is for?  Also it's FAR cheaper to hit defenses with ships more often than it is to nuke them away.  So that is essentially limiting a group for tactics that are valid.  If your wanting to minimize the impact lower the bashing limit not the available tactics to one group of people.  Also the way that the "no attacks on defenses w/o profit" is so relative and hard to determine in some cases makes it easy for some who are doing legitimate attacks to be wrongly accused.

Edit: I'm not referring to lifting the bashing limit or removing it, just the no attacks on defenses without profit rule
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
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Offline Garak

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Re: About nuking other players
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 06:38:50 PM »
Quote from: "Matt H"
@Garak
Is that play style annoying? Probably so. But what is the damage done to Player BFG? None.
So that will not be considered a not for profit attack? What about filling Player BFGs screen with incoming attacks in attempt to shield from a real fleet attack coming in from another player?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
Quote from: \"Sorakiba\"
The only way to stop this sort of thing from happening, is to delete any players account who quits the game. No trading accounts, No giving accounts, and NO SELLING ACCOUNTS!!!