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Author Topic: New suggestion for distributing DSP  (Read 1939 times)

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Offline Fleet Pirate

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New suggestion for distributing DSP
« on: September 26, 2011, 01:54:10 PM »
Yea, I know I am gonna get screamed at, but I don't really care.  So...here is my suggestion:

I think DSP on a GA should be based on what you sent to the attack.  Same with a GD.  Why should a guy who sends a probe on a GA get the benefit of full DSP, sometimes well over 100k, for risking nothing?  The ones who send big fleets have to risk oracle locks on their return or the possibility of a ninja at the target and may lose the entire fleet they sent.  No one is gonna care if they lose a probe though.  So total the attacking fleets RSP value or something and then divide that into the DSP gained before assigning the overall totals.  Probe riding will then be pointless and DSP rank will start to mean something. (Yea, I know DSP would still be inflated from retirement parties and other cheating methods, but others have posted suggestions on how to fix that so not gonna debate it here).

Yup...I do not like probe riders.  I EARN my DSP, for whatever that is worth anymore.  At least I have the satisfaction of knowing I made honest hits and didn't probe ride to gain my DSP.  I am willing to bet most of you will not approve of my suggestion, but I truly hope it is implemented someday, most likely in a new game as it is too late in any current SFC uni.
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Offline Torps

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2011, 03:11:34 PM »
From my point of view there are two sides to this argument.  First of all, as you said, people who send out larger fleets take the higher risks, and for that they absolutely deserve to be rewarded.

On the other side, however, there's the issue of fleet composition.  Generally, the higher damage (and therefore DSP) comes from capitol ships, meaning if this change was implemented then people in a GA with more Athena/Hades would get more DSP, while people sending a larger percentage of fodder such as Arties/Apollo would get less.  This is all perfectly fair, except the person with more fodder will lose more ships, since the total resource cost of losing fodder is generally much higher than that of losing capitol ships...it would essentially punish a player for including fodder (a larger percentage than the other people in the GA) in their attack.

You idea definitely has merit (for example, I agree with you 100% that BFG shouldn't allow players full DSP for an attack by sending just one probe), but there are other concerns that need to be taken into consideration too.

+1 for the overall concept of "earn your DSP"
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Dry Rain

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2011, 03:17:29 PM »
I love probe riders !! they are so fast & lovely :)


Seriously, form my opinion there is nothing wrong with joining an attack with a  probe (Maybe becuse i dont care baout DSP as much as others do)


Some possible reasons for joining an attack with a probe:
1) You found the target but cant attack it, you get to have Finder fee DSP
2) You Are group defending the Actual attacker (losing Hydro and time) and you need to be compensated
3) You are gifting to a freind of yours some DSP (like you would do with recources - I know many wont like this option)

You get 2 things out of an attack DSP + Recourses (Plunder + DF)

Recources can be shared so why not DSP ?!

Anyway, its my opinion, I guess all of the DSP junkies out there will disagree, but i personally feel that your RSP is the true indicator of whats ur worth not DSP.
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Offline Cara

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2011, 04:09:48 PM »
Well i have to say that i thought about it some and agree that a probe should not get as much dsp as the ones sending a lot of fleet,but its a complex issue to adress and the dsp already gained
is there to stay,so one side is that would be unfair to suddenly change the rules,for the newer players.
I made most my dsp(not all) on my own merit,but like on one occasion i found target but to far away to send fleet,so sent probe,got my lovley dsp.One can argue about this,but
Its a part of the game and to change ,so it get totally fair for all players is almost impossible.
But F.P s point is the the correct take on this,in my honnest opinion.
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Offline Wargasm

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2011, 04:58:06 PM »
Good luck Pirate.  I 100% agree with you, but I posted the same thing months ago and all I got was "but we need to be able to, because so-and-so was guarding my heph while I attacked this player..."
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Morat

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2011, 05:08:36 PM »
+1 to the OP exactly as posted. DSP on a GA should be awarded based on participation, and RSP is a handy way to do that.

If players send more fodder and take higher losses, then they get a larger share of the DF. Compensation for lost ships should be in the form of resources, not DSP. I've argued elsewhere that 1 DSP SHOULD represent 1,000 OCH of ships destroyed by that player. That's what DSP is supposed to be. Not getting sidetracked, but anything that changes that makes DSP pretty meaningless as Dry Rain says. Probe riders, double DSP for wars, retirement fleet crashes, even moonshots, all of those make DSP worth very little as what it was originally intended to be, a straight count of the value of fleet a player has destroyed.

Similarly, if you've passed a target on to someone, your compensation should be in the form of OCH, or if that would be pushing, in the form of a favour owed. If DSP is to have any meaning at all it shouldn't be something you can use as a currency, which it currently is as a way of trading without invoking pushing rules.

As Cara says, there'd be no point in changing it in existing Unis, DSP is already pretty meaningless except as a number that adds to your rank, but I would strongly urge BFG to consider returning DSP to its original purpose in any new universes.

Or alternatively to remove DSP from the game entirely.

EDIT - Or, as a slightly less desirable alternative, reset everyones DSP to zero every three or six months. That could be done in existing Unis, and would certainly reduce the value of DSP as a currency.

I'm well aware that no-one reading the board is going to +1 any of that, they're too invested in what they think has some value, but DSP doesn't represent anything any more, and by corollary neither does a large part of an awful lot of players rank.

The scoring system is broken, and that has long-term consequences for SFC and SDE.
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Offline TheOx

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2011, 03:46:55 PM »
This was debated and suggested months ago when it was revealed that top players were using probes for DSP gains. NOthing was done.

The problem is.. BFG is making changes.. but mostly cosmetic.. they arent making any changes to the actual gameplay issues that we have yelled about for 2 years. Its all smoke and mirrors.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
My Victims:
Queen of Angels - Scorned - 9,230,124,115,521,680 DSP
Jeniefe - CE - 425,049,430,778,564 DSP
Jondular - Nemesis - 114,827,036,592,923 DSP
Commander Kopciuszek - Nemesis - 97,336,503,463,657 DSP
meeeeeee - CE - 79,225,200,088,966 DSP
Savach - Nemesis - 72,291,789,932,406 DSP
Max Pax - SW - 39,197,631,495,026
First Star Lord Duncan - UFP - 17,630,572,670,051 DSP
Ambrosius Pendragon - AnT1 - 12,973,450,948,851 DSP
Army Geddon - Nemesis/Valhalia - 5,083,977,670,890 DSP
Augustus Wolf - Nemesis - 3,236,893,621,818 DSP
Ruby Chicken - ANH - 2,153,692,940,926 DSP
ScareCrow - SW - 1,233,018,526,993 DSP
Here Comes Trouble - Exiled - 515,361,618,434 DSP
Lobo - CE - 768,292,429,643 DSP
FireFox - SW - 398,009,220,511
Profiteer - Exiled - 377,415,717,224 DSP
Iron Shadow - Nemesis - 72,834,528,045 DSP
Cronus - IPA - 45,682,810,381 DSP
Damn Haggis - Nemesis - 32,832,020,345 DSP
Havoc33 - Nemesis - 12,560,366,618 DSP
Ben 138 - TRA - 6,332,937,749 DSP

Morat

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2011, 04:43:12 PM »
Quote from: "TheOx"
This was debated and suggested months ago when it was revealed that top players were using probes for DSP gains. NOthing was done.

The problem is.. BFG is making changes.. but mostly cosmetic.. they arent making any changes to the actual gameplay issues that we have yelled about for 2 years. Its all smoke and mirrors.

Yeah, I don't think many of us really expect anything to change in the gameplay. Seems like the attitude is one of "If you don't like it go play something else. There's plenty more people out there". Which is fine, I guess, it's BFGs game. Not quite sure how other companies deal with their customers pointing out faults in their products, but I suppose ignoring them is a perfectly workable short-term solution.

Oh, wait... some of these problems were pointed out a year or more ago? Well I guess we're into the medium term now, and we'll see if customers stick around and accept that attitude.

Oh, wait...
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline rick blackford

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2011, 07:46:28 PM »
i have no problem with probe riders getting an equal share of the dsp. Afterall if it is my group attack and i sent them an invite then i probably knew ahead of time they were just sending probes. also if someone is group attacking in another galaxy and there is no way to join due to time constraints, then why not share in the fun and allow one or several players to send probes. i guess dsp is not that important to me either or i would want it all for myself...stay away from me you people with 1000 probes that are joinging my group attack because i don't wnat your fodder to help save some of my capital ships LOL.

Great topic by the way :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
SFCO Uni - Rick Blackford, Leader, Valente do Moita
Uni2 - Emperor R, no longer active here
Nova Uni - Nova1, Harrasser, N:S:K, gave this one up!
SDE, Lancelot, Not playing anymore

Offline Zuk

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 02:55:44 AM »
i dont do it and am not fond of it myself. however there is one point i would argue for. when hunting in heph packs or even MACing around with others. one or two in the pack will stay behind with their fleet ready for a group defend while the others attack. they send in a probe to get some reward. they most likely may not get any resources from it but they get some dsp. the reward for the kill goes to the group as a whole. since they all hunted the target together. not just the ones that made the kill.

otherwise id be fine with some alternative.

also once a buddy was under attack and possibly going to loose his heph. i had 5000 probes handy and was going to group defend him at the last minute saving his heph and helping him hurt the attackers big time.
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Offline TheOx

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 06:13:36 AM »
Quote from: "Zuk"
i dont do it and am not fond of it myself. however there is one point i would argue for. when hunting in heph packs or even MACing around with others. one or two in the pack will stay behind with their fleet ready for a group defend while the others attack. they send in a probe to get some reward. they most likely may not get any resources from it but they get some dsp. the reward for the kill goes to the group as a whole. since they all hunted the target together. not just the ones that made the kill.


If they are hunting together as a group all the time, then it would even itself out over time without having to send probes anyway.

Person A and Person B attack today. Person C and Person D stay behind to defend

Tommorow Person C and Person D attack, Person A and Person B stay behind etc.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
My Victims:
Queen of Angels - Scorned - 9,230,124,115,521,680 DSP
Jeniefe - CE - 425,049,430,778,564 DSP
Jondular - Nemesis - 114,827,036,592,923 DSP
Commander Kopciuszek - Nemesis - 97,336,503,463,657 DSP
meeeeeee - CE - 79,225,200,088,966 DSP
Savach - Nemesis - 72,291,789,932,406 DSP
Max Pax - SW - 39,197,631,495,026
First Star Lord Duncan - UFP - 17,630,572,670,051 DSP
Ambrosius Pendragon - AnT1 - 12,973,450,948,851 DSP
Army Geddon - Nemesis/Valhalia - 5,083,977,670,890 DSP
Augustus Wolf - Nemesis - 3,236,893,621,818 DSP
Ruby Chicken - ANH - 2,153,692,940,926 DSP
ScareCrow - SW - 1,233,018,526,993 DSP
Here Comes Trouble - Exiled - 515,361,618,434 DSP
Lobo - CE - 768,292,429,643 DSP
FireFox - SW - 398,009,220,511
Profiteer - Exiled - 377,415,717,224 DSP
Iron Shadow - Nemesis - 72,834,528,045 DSP
Cronus - IPA - 45,682,810,381 DSP
Damn Haggis - Nemesis - 32,832,020,345 DSP
Havoc33 - Nemesis - 12,560,366,618 DSP
Ben 138 - TRA - 6,332,937,749 DSP

Offline Zuk

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 07:50:47 AM »
true but players arent always online at the same time each day and last i checked attacks arent guaranteed. that analogy would be perfect but not realistic. im sure you are aware of this fact. each hit could be its last. one day A, B, and C players are online so two attack one stays behind. each hit offers a different amount of dsp.
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Offline FCD

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2011, 12:44:35 PM »
I think it should be left as it is...There are many factors involved where people add probes instead of an attack fleet...Group defends being only one of them...You have the option of not sending invites if you don't want to share your DSP...Why worry about what other people do anyway...If they wanna share their DSP it's their business
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andy nard1

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2011, 12:48:07 PM »
Quote
I think it should be left as it is...There are many factors involved where people add probes instead of an attack fleet...Group defends being only one of them...You have the option of not sending invites if you don't want to share your DSP...Why worry about what other people do anyway...If they wanna share their DSP it's their business

+100
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Morat

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Re: New suggestion for distributing DSP
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2011, 04:07:28 PM »
Quote from: "FCD"
I think it should be left as it is...There are many factors involved where people add probes instead of an attack fleet...Group defends being only one of them...You have the option of not sending invites if you don't want to share your DSP...Why worry about what other people do anyway...Yup, it's their business. It just means If they wanna share their DSP it's their business

But then you may not want probes GDing you, unfortunately you're currently unable to reject them. Just ask Darth Count Seneca http://http://gollstrom.com/sfco/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=118&start=100#p8087

Yup, fo' sho' it's their business. I'll just pay no attention to whatever DSP someone has.
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