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Author Topic: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son  (Read 5489 times)

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Offline JohnJupp

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BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« on: September 06, 2012, 10:53:14 AM »
BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son.

Matt Hirschfelt, Sep 05 18:05 (EDT):
Unfortunately, when you take an account over you inherit all of the previous rule infractions on the account. The account had 3 previous suspensions for pushing/receiving pushing and two previous suspensions for account sharing/multi-accounting.

Matt Hirschfelt
Blue Frog Gaming

So let me get this straight.  Someone takes over a live account which is not suspended but because it had a previous owner that had notched up suspensions in the past, those previous "convictions" are carried forward on to the new owner who may have never ever been in trouble with the game rules before?

Matt that's a crock of shit.

I suggest you unsuspend Bad Wookie who had taken over an account with a poor suspension history (the old Bodge account) and not permanently suspend the account which is what you have done, for a single alleged infraction, just because the previous account holder had more than a handful of past suspensions.

That's like saying to someone residing in a property when visited by the police "well we're smashing down your doors and searching the joint because six months ago the previous resident was a known drug dealer".
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John.. What to say? If there is such thing as a classy hunter, he´s your guy. Thanks for all the fun, buddy.
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Morat

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2012, 11:38:04 AM »
Nice. There's BFG's steel-trap legal mind at work again.  ::)

Offline Anton de Borg

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2012, 12:05:29 PM »
Pity that was not decared at time of transfer!!!


Offline Matt H

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2012, 12:47:47 PM »
Allowing the 'new owner' to start fresh every time the account is transferred would only allow a player to perpetually cheat with an account by claiming every time they get two strikes that they're passing it off to someone else. Buying accounts is at your own risk and is not approved by Blue Frog Gaming. If you feel the need to obtain another users account you should take great care to ensure that it's coming from someone you trust and you have a full understanding of the history of the account from them.
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Offline Big S

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2012, 01:48:53 PM »
Yes, it could allow someone to attempt to do that. However, use your brain and look for exculpatory evidence. If you can't find any, then the new owner pays the ultimate price. If you can find evidence that the person is a new person, then give them ONE more chance, but keep the history of suspensions so you can see if they ever match the previous user profile.

Seriously, if you can't do a WHOIS and see if a user has "moved to another country" based on the block of IP addresses, then how can you ever prove multi-accounting in the first place? It's precisely the inverse of how you go about proving/disproving multi-accounting. So if you can prove multi-accounting, it's also just as easy to prove account transfers. There will always be cases where there is not enough exculpatory evidence, but what about those situations where there is? For example if the new IP is from a block of addressed belonging to ATT Mobility, sure, maybe they just moved to a smart phone. But it went from an Verizon FIOS block to a wireless block that belongs to an Indian wireless carrier, heck, Sherlock, is it really that hard to figure out?

Years ago, I accused a player of multi-accounting, and Jason told me it looked like two different people because they were tied to legitimate looking Facebook accounts, so all the contrary evidence of playing from the same IP (which he confirmed was happening) was irrelevant. Now you are saying an account can be traded and you have no idea if the new person is a different person. Which is it Matt???? You can tell or you can't???????? Because if you are now saying you can't tell, then all the excuses Jason has given in the past to prove someone isn't multi-accounting are bull crap.

Let me say one more thing. If the new player has no history, appears to just be a different DSL provider that serves the same area, then fine, conclude it's a ploy to reset the suspensions. If they have history under a different account, there's never been evidence of multi-accounting between the two, some exculpatory evidence exists, then at least give the guy ONE more chance.
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Offline JohnJupp

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 01:51:10 PM »
Allowing the 'new owner' to start fresh every time the account is transferred would only allow a player to perpetually cheat with an account by claiming every time they get two strikes that they're passing it off to someone else. Buying accounts is at your own risk and is not approved by Blue Frog Gaming. If you feel the need to obtain another users account you should take great care to ensure that it's coming from someone you trust and you have a full understanding of the history of the account from them.

By that analogy you are still passing the burden onto the new account holder for by your own statement above it is the former account holder who would abandon the account to another in order to obtain a replacement.  Seeing that you can ip ban anyhow, I say again, you should not punish the person acquiring the account, especially when they have spent credits on it (name change, buying items) thereby providing revenue to BFG and used it for a period of time only to then be penalised for somebody elses errors then I pity you and I pity BFG for being so hostile to their customer base.
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John.. What to say? If there is such thing as a classy hunter, he´s your guy. Thanks for all the fun, buddy.
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What with this and your previous post, you do know you\'re a raving nutjob, right?
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Offline JohnJupp

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 01:54:09 PM »
I concur with Big S.  How the hell can a person living in Scotland be confused with a person living in the London area?  Regardless of that, once BFG has facilitated the account transfer (email change, confirmation correspondence via support), BFG has colluded with the transfer.  It is a transfer, namely the account is transferrable.

If it is transferrable then stop this rubbish about also transferring past indiscretions from the previous account holder.
Quote from: \"Butcher\"
John.. What to say? If there is such thing as a classy hunter, he´s your guy. Thanks for all the fun, buddy.
Quote from: \"Morat\"
What with this and your previous post, you do know you\'re a raving nutjob, right?
First To Break Starfleet Commander Nova - I Claim It

Offline JohnJupp

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 01:56:08 PM »
I don't take over my utilities in a property to be told oh the previous owner incurred a large debt and you have to pay it.  I am a separate householder who has taken over the use of the asset, the property.  In law the same applies to virtual items like accounts.  I am not responsible for how it was administered prior to my taking it over.

Free the Bad Wookie and unsuspend him.
Quote from: \"Butcher\"
John.. What to say? If there is such thing as a classy hunter, he´s your guy. Thanks for all the fun, buddy.
Quote from: \"Morat\"
What with this and your previous post, you do know you\'re a raving nutjob, right?
First To Break Starfleet Commander Nova - I Claim It

Offline The Grinch

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 01:58:52 PM »
BFG doesn't want folks trading accounts.  This is just another risk-factor associated with switching accounts.  And frankly, trading with someone with a history like Bodge is pretty stupid.

Offline Big S

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 02:17:30 PM »
BFG doesn't want folks trading accounts.  This is just another risk-factor associated with switching accounts.  And frankly, trading with someone with a history like Bodge is pretty stupid.
The latter point I agree with, but the former is irrelevant. If they wanted to shutdown the trade of accounts, they could just say they won't assist in linking/unlinking FB accounts and the other things that people change when buying/trading accounts. If you could no longer unlink the account from another person's FB via support, then it would stop the trading industry dead in it's tracks. The fact that they don't want to draw that line in the sand indicates they aren't as against it as you say. Therefore, they should at least take suspensions on a case by case basis too. Like I said above, if there is sufficient exculpatory evidence that the new owner is in fact a different person, let them have one additional strike, not a full reset of strikes. If there isn't, then let it stand.
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Offline Jacq

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 02:52:41 PM »
This wouldn't be an issue if he didn't do something that warranted a suspension since the transfer.     Many people transfer accounts even with poor histories and don't get perma-suspended because they don't violate any rules after the transfer.   

That being said since it is a new owner a one more chance would make sense.
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Ali Baba

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 02:58:16 PM »
And..if the Account is linked up to Facebook im sure you can check that out to make sure there not the same person.

On the other hand thats coming from someone who has a Gamer Account on Facebook as well as a RL account for my family and friends.

Offline owen mcgee25

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2012, 03:56:09 PM »
some at BFG may have degree's but seems like they lack common sence! well no one there has a law degree that's for sure lol. other wise when the account transfer took place they would be informed off the previous owners violations or at least told oh by the way 1 suspension and your out of here.

which leads me to my next point LOGRUS and KO from former centaur now in AVG have had more than 3 suspensions since they all left pirate alliance for so called rule infringements and they are constantly logging into frs for each other so 1 strike and WB is out and 3 and LOGRUS stays ?

kevin rhodes

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2012, 03:56:37 PM »
see i told you all you get punnished if you dont cheat!
cheating helps the gaming move forward

Offline Bodge

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Re: BFG Say The Sins Of The Father Must Be Paid By The Son
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2012, 03:59:39 PM »
Allowing the 'new owner' to start fresh every time the account is transferred would only allow a player to perpetually cheat with an account by claiming every time they get two strikes that they're passing it off to someone else. Buying accounts is at your own risk and is not approved by Blue Frog Gaming. If you feel the need to obtain another users account you should take great care to ensure that it's coming from someone you trust and you have a full understanding of the history of the account from them.

Matt, I have only just been made aware of this problem. I gave my x1 account away, it is a bit unfair that you should perma ban this account as the new owner was not involved in any way. It was transfered to wookie's facebook.
 

 

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