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Author Topic: Battlementat question  (Read 3858 times)

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Offline gmfeier

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Battlementat question
« on: December 07, 2013, 05:48:23 PM »
Does Battlementat take Eradeon boosts into account? I just ran a GA with another player and the results were far better than Battlementat predicted.

Offline Dark Eye

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 06:04:21 PM »
I would not think it does,  That is a huge game change. 
Alliance Leader of Empire in U3 and E3

Offline PhoenixIce

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 08:27:35 PM »
And since BattleMentat hasn't been updated with info on the new uni, like ships and stuff, obviously it won't take Eradeon into account! ;)

Offline Zarchne

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 09:59:52 PM »
As far as AWS goes, for low levels, one level of Eradeon is roughly one level of AWS.  So if all your ships have Eradeon level 2, you can bump your AWS by 2 in BattleMentat.  For BM to support E properly will require an input box for each ship type.

Offline Zarchne

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 06:20:00 AM »
I should probably also point out that for large levels of Eradeon and AWS (say, 5 or more), you'll want to do the multiplication.  The formula would be

10 × ((1 + E÷10) × (1 + AWS÷10) – 1)

so for, e.g., E6 and AWS 5, they combine to an effective AWS of 10 × (1.6 * 1.5 - 1) = 14 (rather than 11).

or, equivalently:

(10 + E) × (10 + AWS) ÷ 10 – 10

Which you can see, when E and AWS get over 10, they produce an effective AWS of over 30, and E20 · AWS20 is equivalent to AWS 80.  Which is interesting... I'll have to revisit my Ineffectiveness Rule spreadsheet and see how Eradeon levels affect it.

And that's just for ‘human’ ships.  The AWS for each alien race has an even greater effect (15%, 20%, or 30%, vs 10% for human) on those ships.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 07:41:14 AM by Zarchne »

Offline FatBuddha

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 01:32:49 AM »
Been a bit busy, so only just saw this forum post.

BattleMentat does not yet take any of the new ships or mechanics into account, but I will be adding all this stuff when I get the time.

Since my spare time is in short supply at the moment, it will probably be implemented as a number of sequential updates rather than waiting until it is all ready.

I can't give a time frame for any of this stuff. Let me know which things you think are the most important though, and that will help me prioritise the order in which I implement them (i.e. new ships, ship stealing, eradian upgrades, alien techs, grouping ships/techs by race, anything else I forgot...)

Offline Zarchne

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 02:04:30 AM »
Right now, ship stealing can probably be put off as I don't think it's been unlocked yet.  Eradeon for the human ships is first.

Offline Azureflames

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 11:35:07 PM »
I should probably also point out that for large levels of Eradeon and AWS (say, 5 or more), you'll want to do the multiplication.  The formula would be

10 × ((1 + E÷10) × (1 + AWS÷10) – 1)

so for, e.g., E6 and AWS 5, they combine to an effective AWS of 10 × (1.6 * 1.5 - 1) = 14 (rather than 11).

or, equivalently:

(10 + E) × (10 + AWS) ÷ 10 – 10

Which you can see, when E and AWS get over 10, they produce an effective AWS of over 30, and E20 · AWS20 is equivalent to AWS 80.  Which is interesting... I'll have to revisit my Ineffectiveness Rule spreadsheet and see how Eradeon levels affect it.

And that's just for ‘human’ ships.  The AWS for each alien race has an even greater effect (15%, 20%, or 30%, vs 10% for human) on those ships.

Seems like Eradeon causes ship stats to scale waay too quickly. I think I'd rather it be additive as opposed to multiplicative. In just a month or two ships stats are going to start to get out of control.

Offline Zman_47

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 06:49:55 AM »
FatBuddha, adding the new ships would probably would be the best benefit for everyone atm. Thanks!

Offline FatBuddha

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2013, 12:10:41 PM »
Thanks for the info Zarchne (I'd meant to check with Matt if they added or multiplied, so saved me a job there.)

I'll try and get some stuff added to BattleMentat soonish, bearing in mind the preferences here along with those that I've been emailed.

Offline Zarchne

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 05:17:45 PM »
Well, Eradeon is easy and is the first new thing people actually encounter in the game (unless they get an alien ship on their first LD).  The new ships come a little later.

Here's a question you'll need answered soon (not for Eradeon, which is just 10% and the players' esp says exactly what levels for each ship):  When you espionage an NPC, it still only tells you AWS numbers, not alien techs like esp of players.  For players, obviously their Krug ships are boosted by their Krug techs (at 15%) and their Urcath ships are boosted by their Urcath techs (at 20%), and 25% for Seekers.  The question is, how are NPC AWS numbers applied to their ships?  Do Krug NPCs apply AWS at 15% across the board?  Is it 15% to the Krug ships and 10% to the 'human' ships?  Is it 10% across the board as in other universes?  I don't know if this happens, but I expect Urcath ships could show up at Krug NPCs.  Does the Urcath ship get 10%, 15%, or 20% for AWS?

Offline Thermopyle

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 11:26:36 PM »
Right now, ship stealing can probably be put off as I don't think it's been unlocked yet.  Eradeon for the human ships is first.

the only human ships im using are zags and atlas! we can calc the eradeon, put the alien ships in ! lol

Offline XenaHG

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 03:05:56 PM »
I would like the Alien ships to be added first,  it is tricky to calculate the outcome with ships not in the BM. Even while the Eradeon is not in BM yet, we should have a better outcome than the calculations indicate against NPC's, but we will need it against players asap

Offline Zarchne

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 05:16:07 AM »
how are NPC AWS numbers applied to their ships?

So I've been looking into this a bit by comparing a couple of NPC battle reports to the espionage reports, and my hypothesis at this point is that the AWS numbers reported in the NPC esp reports are not applied to any of the ships at the NPC.  That is, all NPCs are currently (in effect) 0 tech regardless of the AWS numbers reported.

Offline FatBuddha

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Re: Battlementat question
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2013, 12:45:23 PM »
I believe that the regular AWS values are only applied to non-alien ships (perhaps the aliens you've looked at only have alien ships?) I would have expected the alien tech levels to be shown in addition to those values though. Maybe they are always 0 currently?