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Author Topic: Re: tiered NPCs  (Read 4535 times)

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Offline Swanvesta

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Re: Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2014, 12:45:22 AM »
and just to show you the kind of npc's the big boys get thrown our way ..  im guessing these were spawned for me, but i literally cannot take them for profit..

Encounter Large Floating Colony ‎[2:496:6e] has:

RESOURCES:
* ore: 8,863,645
* crystal: 26,620,729
* hydrogen: 25,176,316

URCATH'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 26
* Vortex Fighter: 3
* Apollo Class Fighter: 3
* Curetes Class Cruiser: 9,337

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 412,334
* Laser Cannon: 259,488
* Space Mine: 2,943
* Pulse Cannon: 508
* Particle Cannon: 2,251
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 430
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 269

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 12
* Shield Tech: 12
* Weapons Tech: 12
* Krug Quantum Drive: 12
* Urcath Anti-Matter Drive: 12
* Seeker Dark Energy Drive: 12
* Krug Weapon Tech: 12
* Krug Shield Tech: 12
* Krug Armor Tech: 12
* Urcath Weapon Tech: 12
* Urcath Shield Tech: 12
* Urcath Armor Tech: 12
* Seeker Weapon Tech: 12
* Seeker Shield Tech: 12
* Seeker Armor Tech: 12

Encounter Large Floating Colony ‎[2:465:13e] has:

RESOURCES:
* ore: 6,771,553
* crystal: 20,397,800
* hydrogen: 17,490,561

URCATH'S SHIPS:
* Artemis Class Fighter: 7,777
* Atlas Class Cargo: 11
* Hercules Class Cargo: 3
* Athena Class Battleship: 72

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 323,826
* Laser Cannon: 59,656
* Space Mine: 2,743
* Pulse Cannon: 608
* Particle Cannon: 2,203
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 474
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 265

TECHS:
* Armor Tech: 14
* Shield Tech: 14
* Weapons Tech: 14
* Krug Quantum Drive: 14
* Urcath Anti-Matter Drive: 14
* Seeker Dark Energy Drive: 14
* Krug Weapon Tech: 14
* Krug Shield Tech: 14
* Krug Armor Tech: 14
* Urcath Weapon Tech: 14
* Urcath Shield Tech: 14
* Urcath Armor Tech: 14
* Seeker Weapon Tech: 14
* Seeker Shield Tech: 14
* Seeker Armor Tech: 14
Miss Kiki: Believe me I have been well warned about you
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Offline Deeds

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Re: Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2014, 01:39:21 AM »
@swan
i agree, us being able to hit bigger NPCs and gather more resources then others, helps us to help others, especially our buddies and alliance members. you couldnt have done your crystal giveaway last week without the NPCs being how they are!

MunchMunchMunchMunchMunch

Offline Trump

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2014, 10:43:01 AM »
@Swan *Standing Ovation*

Grace

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2014, 10:49:00 AM »
Thanks for your input, Swan. Some measured feedback there and some good points. However, there are a few which fail to factor in some elements so I will go through them in turn, as I work my way through your response.

I have no idea what other online strategy games are like, or who they cator for, because I have never played any besides SFC so I have no idea whether or not they are loaded in favour of the full time players or accommodate casual players, or who the majority/minority is, so I will answer your response from the perspective of my experience playing SFC.

I do agree with what you are saying as it stands now. However, that wasn't always the case. The majority of players in this game were casual facebook players and they came in all brands and sorts and from all walks of life. The game was relatively balanced at that time and to emphasise my point,  I even remember the number 1 player in SFC Ex, having his fleet taken out in a solo hit by another player in the top 10, such was the level of balance in terms of development and fleet spec. Would never see that now. It wasn't perfect, but it was much more balanced than it is now.

Since then, with all of the changes that have slipped in over the years, the majority HAVE abandoned the game and walk away in frustration for various reasons. Quite alot of those reasons were lost on BFG at the time because there was no feedback request occurring, no concerns being listened to and whatever... their points even ridiculed on the forum, those who brought them here. I have joined and quit, at some point, every uni in the SFC series and never once did anyone from the game send me a message asking for any feedback. The feedback they always received was from the vocal minority on the forums who now call themselves the majority, and the feedback generally consisted of ways to load the game in their favour.

I have no problem with what players can and cannot buy in a general sense. As a matter of fact, it is one of my pleasures of the game being able to compete with them on their level without having to spend money like they do. There are two purchases which should not be available, though, which I strongly contest, because they make a mockery of what is supposed to be a strategy game. You should not be able to fast-track research beyond a 10% bonus and you should not be able to buy fleets. I'm cool with everything else, but anyone who thinks they are a great player just because they have a big fleet which they spent alot of money on is missing the point. Part of the strategy of the game, in its purest form, is prioritizing the build process. Do you go straight for mines and unlock a few defences to protect res? sats  or solar array? straight for certain ships to source income from elsewhere? Spend what you bring in to build more of the same or plough it into a better ship for a better return? The way it stands now, that element of strategy is undermined by the facility and mentality of fast-tracking everything and spending alot of money on a fully kitted out fleet. It is effectively the same difference as having a ready made account available for purchase in the store so why not make one available and drop the strategy charade?

Droids is maybe another one. Buy them, by all means, but why reduce the bonus of inviting crewmates to 2% ? If there is a way to remove incentive for inviting friends to the game then that is a good way to go about it.

To be frank with you, I don't see why I should have to find another game or why you think I ruined it for you. On the contrary, I actually think players with your mentality is what ruined it for everyone else and as far as disbalance goes that you are complaining about, as far as I see it, you deserve everything you get. This wouldn't be the case if the casual players weren't  driven out of the game with the pay to win mentality. The developers still need to bring in the revenue lost from mass casual purchase. Now that the masses are gone, they now they have to do overkill on those who remains to compensate.

In terms of who to cater for, now that things have changed, well, whatever you may think or whatever the developers might think is more profitable in the immediate sense, One concept that is basic common business sense is you don't put all of your eggs in one basket and you don't dance around biased feedback which undermines the loyalty of other customers. Sooner or later the old retired people will die and the nerds will move on to something new. Who then will be left to spend $500 a fleet every new uni?

Completely agree with your point on the community lacking civility. I have come across some very poor attitudes in this game over the years that have ruined the game experience of some players. These are the players who need to be policed and brought to book rather than slapping petty sanctions on honest players who are having a bit of light hearted fun. BFG themselves are as much to blame in this respect for some disillusioned players walking away in light of a perceived inconsistency in applying the rules. No-one wants to waste their leisure time in an environment which lacks any respect for their position.

Great point about the pushing/pulling rule. There are many rules in the game which are not thought through enough. They are in place because there are always characters with a mentality that is ready to exploit dishonestly. Consequently, honest intentions suffer and those who exploit get away with it anyway if the spend enough on the game so what is the point? Personally, if they are not going to be consistent with applying the rules or prepared to take exceptional cases into account then the community would probably be better off if they scrapped them altogether and let players rise and fall by their own virtues. I am sure the community would police the game  itself once common virtues were established.

As far as your crystal giveaway went, I thought that was a brilliant touch on your part and is an attitude I would like to see more of throughout the game from other players.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 11:09:02 AM by Grace »

Grace

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Re: Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2014, 11:11:47 AM »
@swan
i agree, us being able to hit bigger NPCs and gather more resources then others, helps us to help others, especially our buddies and alliance members. you couldnt have done your crystal giveaway last week without the NPCs being how they are!

Deeds, don't get me wrong, I am merely looking for ways to rebalance the game and open up the door for new or returning players to compete which doesn't involve spending 12hrs per day dedicated to the game. If you like hitting NPCs and think there is a better way to do it then by all means suggest it.

Offline Commander Lunsford

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2014, 04:09:31 PM »
The NPC's, and terras are part of the game, like it or not, I would like to see minor changes, but for the most part, we live with them as they are.

My thoughts on keeping more involved would be to have the fleets regenerate at a certain percentage, for the ones being wiped out, nothing like logging on and seeing no fleet, but if they still had a smaller fleet to be regenerated they might stay, the defenses regenerate, plunder is 50%, so why not fleets, just my thoughts on keeping more people staying and playing, I know RL will or could get everyone's fleet, and until recently my naps while holding my lap top went unnoticed, I did have a small planet fleet hit, while I had other toys in other g's if it had been the vast majority of my toys, I would have just went back to my x2  :P

Offline Deeds

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Re: Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2014, 07:11:07 PM »
Grace, how can you buy fleets? unless you want to buy a million lucky draw tokens and hope to get lucky lol

As far as the fleet regeneration..all that would do is prompt follow up attacks
MunchMunchMunchMunchMunch

Grace

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Re: Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2014, 08:06:07 PM »
Grace, how can you buy fleets? unless you want to buy a million lucky draw tokens and hope to get lucky lol

As far as the fleet regeneration..all that would do is prompt follow up attacks

Trade mercing crstal for ore to build ships that others cant if they dont spend is effectively buying yourself a fleet. Why not just get rid of the trade merc and throw the fleets up for purchase in the store?

Fleet regeneration is a good suggestion in my opinion. Slapping a credit value on it might remove potential abuse.

Offline Swanvesta

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2014, 08:18:12 PM »
while i see your point grace, its flimsy at best..

crystal is in abundance, but, you do still have to earn it first. by hitting stuff, that's not buying a fleet..

if they gave proper ratios on the npc's no-one would need to merc crystal, therefore no-one would be buying a fleet
Miss Kiki: Believe me I have been well warned about you
Miss Kiki: I think it was stated that Swan is the biggest nut job in the SFC game community

Biggest nut job on SFC - I claim it!

Grace

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2014, 08:31:43 PM »
while i see your point grace, its flimsy at best..

crystal is in abundance, but, you do still have to earn it first. by hitting stuff, that's not buying a fleet..

if they gave proper ratios on the npc's no-one would need to merc crystal, therefore no-one would be buying a fleet

it's just ifs and buts though... the NPCs are loaded that way to get excess money out of the players they lost on mass purchase... which goes back to the other point I made earlier... cant have it both ways

Offline Commander Lunsford

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2014, 09:59:11 PM »
As far as the fleet regeneration..all that would do is prompt follow up attacks

I see your point, but me not being a tech geek, or anything close, I am sure something could be added as to not be hit multiple times with in a time frame, at times like now I wish I were a tech geek to say what could be done and how, but I'll leave it up to someone more knowledgeable than me to figure a formula out, just thought it would be a nice "gift" to have to try to keep people playing 

Offline Trump

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2014, 10:19:50 PM »
As far as the fleet regeneration..all that would do is prompt follow up attacks

I see your point, but me not being a tech geek, or anything close, I am sure something could be added as to not be hit multiple times with in a time frame, at times like now I wish I were a tech geek to say what could be done and how, but I'll leave it up to someone more knowledgeable than me to figure a formula out, just thought it would be a nice "gift" to have to try to keep people playing

That's quite easy actually, just set a regeneration timer on it, make it random and no-one knows when to sent the second fleet.

it's just ifs and buts though... the NPCs are loaded that way to get excess money out of the players they lost on mass purchase... which goes back to the other point I made earlier... cant have it both ways

I can't fight this feeling that your main issue is pay to win features Grace, all I can say is that money doesn't make winners in this game, there are plenty people paying without ever getting close to the top #100 players while at the same time you'll find plenty non paying players in that same top #100.
It's part of all online games, the simple reason is that programmers need to pay for a sandwich too.
Hell even freaking farmville has pay to win features.
Personally I dont see anything wrong with paying to play, I allways look at it like a hobby, one person spends loads of cash on model trains, other pay cash to play games.
If you can't pay you need to find a strategy that works for you.

Quote
I am merely looking for ways to rebalance the game and open up the door for new or returning players to compete which doesn't involve spending 12hrs per day dedicated to the game.

As far as that goes, in every game or sport there will allways be one team or one person that is the best, in a lot of sports and games that person or Team is often untouchable, Like Spain as soccer country in the last 8 years, Mohammed Ali during his top years as boxer, and Michael Schumacher during his F1 years driving for Ferarri.
It's all part of the game, doesn't mean the best can't loose, in the past (X1) we had Aaron Moon and later Yaman, both of them where close to untouchable, both got caught with a group attack.
Back then out current #1 Tets was #2 in Xtreme (lol untill he got suspended permanently for cheating) even he couldn't touch Aaron or Yaman by himself.
As I was EMPIRE back then which was led by Aaron and Yaman I can tell you that they got that strong because of their skills, not because of their money. It's all part of the game, there can only be 1 Champion, and the rest of us compete for what is left.

Offline lazoputz

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Re: Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2014, 10:33:41 PM »
@Grace: If you ever find a way to "compete" without investing time in the game, please let us (well, me; anyway) know how you managed it. You claim spending money is a foul thing for some people to do. You then state you want to be able to compete without investing 12 hours a day in the game. I do not understand where you are going with this. A par golfer spends many hours honing his game on the driving range, but you expect to just drop into a golf course, have someone give you a set of golf clubs, and be able to "compete" with that person? You are indeed a remarkable person if you can pull that off.

Grace

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2014, 12:22:28 AM »
Achmed & Lazoputs

This thread is about NPCs. If there was a mention of purchase in it anywhere then that was brought into it by someone else. Although the game is pay to win nowadays, it is also spend 12hours per day farming NPCs to win. If players want to pay to advance in the game then taht is theor call, I don't really have any major issue with that. Farming NPCs for 12hrs a day, though... that effectively rules me out.

Laz
The point you are missing is that this is a game, not a proffesion. You don't earn real money playing this game to put bread on the table at home so your analogy is anal.

If everyone here is happy to farm NPCs for 12hrs per day then I guess there is no problem. I'll just leave you all to it and happily move on to another uni or even another game.

Offline renykeny

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Re: tiered NPCs
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2014, 02:33:40 AM »
I hate npcs myself..its funny how people don't seem to realize that they have killed the game..all npcs are imbalanced in resources...if you don't have the ability to merchant you can not stay competitive with them in the game ::)
suck it up monkey boy!