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Author Topic: hydro cost  (Read 2509 times)

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Offline Pie

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 11:54:40 AM »
I still think hydro fuel cost should be set to zero.

Will it enable top players to freely roam the universe taking out any and all occupied territories?


Absolutely!
Its a war game and you have to defend yourself from such attacks, there is no fool proof method in place for destroying a player held territory fleet.

Lots of top players holding loads of Territories?


Maybe, but they have to put in the time to take, hold and collect and you are still limited by the amount of fleet spots you have, it soons gets a logistical juggling act and if you're willing to put the effort in, then why not? Though I can assure you hephs will be parking on debris fields everywhere and having a literal field day! Pretty soon you would realise that holding too many will just benefit your enemies (or your alliance, a good thing), so a balance would need to be found.

Will credit purchases drop to an all time low?


Nope, I don't believe so.
There is a very healthy unbalance of non-hydro ships flying around at present, that will inevitably get corrected as players realise how poor thier fleet compositions are and rush to correct that. Higher level foundries will get built to help with mass builds and people will still spend on p-mode.

My absolute main reason for zero cost though is it will bring back balance of what people are willing to pay, in its current form the costs are increasing which will inevitably lead to a dead uni, regardless of any percentage reduction ( A 1%,10%,50% reduction will only be a temp fix, it will still lead to what is happening now,only difference being the time it takes to get there) and with hydro purchase limits in place. We can CHOOSE to spend hydro on new ships or new builds and not be 'persuaded' to save/purchase x amount for fuel and above all, you can comfortably spend only want you want to spend, without running out of options.

Of course players who spend the most will usually end up at the top, but thats never really changed from uni to uni, what this will do is put the risk back into the game, I miss getting probed/attacked and have got complacent in my actions ( I even got caught in the downtime, most exciting thing to happen for ages and never even see it, lol)

Anyway, this is just my opinion on this, feel free to correct any blatantly obvious points I may have overlooked ;)

First to post something from game that is actually greater than 1 quadrillion...I claim it!

Offline Ali Baba

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 12:36:06 PM »
I still think hydro fuel cost should be set to zero
Not going to Quote the whole thing.

But yea great read and i would like to say i agree, Thank you for summing it up.

kru

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 12:48:39 PM »
to be fair, this is now an illiogical discussion...

the drawbacks of 0%, 1%, 5% or even 10% hydro costs are these:

1) Players holding territories cannot defend themselves against the top players, having a high hydro output becomes their only defence.

2) Fleetspot allocation is irrelevant, you shouldn't be where you are in the top 10 with anything less than AI20.

3) Credit purchase WILL drop, that is a guranteed certianty.  I mean why would i now spend $40 per month if i did  not have to buy my feul? Most likely i would now only $15 - $20 per month.

4) Higher level foundarys, ROFL have you looked at the cost? Seriously have you? Even merching at the rate of HS 54 i have to do 6 trades for foundary 39, and then 12 for foundary 40.....Costs spiral out of control and 99% of the players (including me) will not spend $5 - $10 to upgrade a building.

6) P modes will be less purchased, with 0 hydro for feeltsaving they willopt to fleetsave instead of p mode, again...I know of plenty of players who have said the exact same thing...ONLY reason they p-mode is because it is too expensive to fleetsave (expensive in terms of credits) Right now it is cheaper to p-mode than purcahse the merchant for hydro.

Also, i don't think pie understands, this universe has an END......So, a temp fix could, and will most likely be a perma fix.

Eventually, your numbers are not going to be supported by BFGs systems and then it is game over for you ( i am almost there, only permitted one more upgrade on a building, then i cannot upgrade it anymore)

In any regard, anything below a 50% reduction is an absurd request


Offline Darth Metz

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2014, 07:02:38 PM »
Well said kru

kru

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2014, 07:47:05 PM »
Well said kru

hey, i would love to have 0 hydro cost....being ranked 1 in most ctas i know outright how it would benefit me...

right now truth is i bring in well over
ore
3,985,400,714,578,930,399
Crystal
2,035,079,152,633,467,768

every single day....with 0 hydro on harvesting and attacking i would be able to triple if not quadrouple that amount...

it would also mean i wouldn't hesitate to do cross galaxy attacks.  I am speaking realisticly about how it would not be a good idea, and yes....i am saying to BFG we all need help with hydro, but not the kind of help some players are requesting

Offline Pie

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2014, 08:34:37 PM »
to be fair, this is now an illiogical discussion..

I don't believe it is, as long as I can see reasons why a zero fuel cost is beneficial to the community as a whole, how is that illogical?

the drawbacks of 0%, 1%, 5% or even 10% hydro costs are these:

1) Players holding territories cannot defend themselves against the top players, having a high hydro output becomes their only defence.


Territories were designed to be attacked, they are supposed to be a major part of pvp - not become non-attackable because of fuel costs! + if they get attacked its a simple case of withdrawing, at no point do they hugely benefit top players because they are undefendable.

2) Fleetspot allocation is irrelevant, you shouldn't be where you are in the top 10 with anything less than AI20.


I was replying to Darth Metz.

... I'd drop all but 1 planet  and hold 8 to 16 terris easy and would worry about the hydro cost.

It would be difficult to benefit from holding too many as there is nothing to stop randoms landing hephs on territories and farming. Your reply seems to have missed that point.

3) Credit purchase WILL drop, that is a guranteed certianty.  I mean why would i now spend $40 per month if i did  not have to buy my feul? Most likely i would now only $15 - $20 per month.


Would'nt $15 - $20 per month be better than $0 per month for BFG?. Because once you can't afford fuel anymore are you really going to keep spending?

4) Higher level foundarys, ROFL have you looked at the cost? Seriously have you? Even merching at the rate of HS 54 i have to do 6 trades for foundary 39, and then 12 fodr founary 40.....Costs spiral out of control and 99% of the players (including me) will not spend $5 - $10 to upgrade a building.


I am well aware of the costs of Foundries. I was envisaging players upgrading to low to mid thirties but there will always be players that want to build higher and will convert hydro accordingly.

6) P modes will be less purchased, with 0 hydro for feeltsaving they willopt to fleetsave instead of p mode, again...I know of plenty of players who have said the exact same thing...ONLY reason they p-mode is because it is too expensive to fleetsave (expensive in terms of credits) Right now it is cheaper to p-mode than purcahse the merchant for hydro.

Players will always p-mode for convenience and to protect overnight builds yet to be forced because its cheaper than fuel costs seriously tells me somethings wrong with the game mechanic, do other unis suffer from this? or do they p-mode when they want to? I bet p-mode is alive and well in these unis.

Also, i don't think pie understands, this universe has an END......So, a temp fix could, and will most likely be a perma fix.

Of course I understand, I can see an end quite clearly. That is why I make these posts. With a zero fuel cost I don't believe it has to end, or as not as fast as the current set up will bring about.


Eventually, your numbers are not going to be supported by BFGs systems and then it is game over for you ( i am almost there, only permitted one more upgrade on a building, then i cannot upgrade it anymore)

So that building has reached its max level, why does it have to be 'game over' ?

In any regard, anything below a 50% reduction is an absurd request

In my opinion, anything above 50% is just as absurd, there is no solution to using a commodity in game that is essential to continued participation if that commodity continues to rise in a real world cost.

I'll make one request to BFG, if you are going to let this uni run its course and make no change, then just before you pull the plug, drop fuel costs to zero and see how it plays out.

Or have a hydro free weekend special.

That is all, thx for reading :P
First to post something from game that is actually greater than 1 quadrillion...I claim it!

kru

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 09:01:26 PM »
pie man, you gotta learn how to quote properly lol

anyway, as i explained here:
http://forum.playstarfleet.com/index.php?topic=21445.0

There is a max, and it is 8.4Q hydro per trade.  Based on current hydro stats BFG will be committing suicide to allow 0 hydro feul cost.

Every building, every tech, every ship has a MAXIMUM you can go to as the SQL will not support the numbers. granted on ships/defences that will be a long time yet.

My response in regards to fleetspot allocation is and was aimed directly at you statement

Lots of top players holding loads of Territories?

Maybe, but they have to put in the time to take, hold and collect and you are still limited by the amount of fleet spots you have,

A top player should be finding it very easy to hold upto 10 territories, harvest and still have slots open for other attacks, transports deploys etc

seeing how you are top 10 in rank, but have yet to have a substantial fleet you cannot identify how backwards that statement is.

I assure you, 0 hydro cost will benefit those with major fleetage more than it will benefit 75% of the players combined.

With 0 hydro, i would happily lainch all day every day on every single territory you have with 300 trillion athena....why not it costs nothing, so i loose nothing and risk loosing nothing, but potentially have a lot to gain...

There are players ranked 200 - 100 that would have the same issue....5 galaxy attacks will become common place.

Whilst the game is a game, it has to identify at least loosley with reality, everything MUST cost something, thats the #1 rule of the game

You most likely do not remeber how hard the community fought to have hydro consumtpion removed for browsing each system (it used to cost 10 hydro to go system to system) and some people realisticvly expect BFG to do away with hydro cost?

To be fair, 0 hydro cost would mot likely mean i only buy maybe $5 per month, and thats a big maybe.

The problem is, hydro costs the same here as it does in every other universe, so you want a big fleet, you have to expcet to be able to feul the fleet....thats rule #1 of the shipbuilders guide

so, in relation to my point 4. why should i therefore no be penalised by not being willing to spend $5 or $10 to upgrade when i already spent those $$ on feulling my fleet for all these months as well as shipbuilding and upgrading? does that mean i should now be entitled to a refund?

Paying money is always expected to give one a potential advanatghe in how they can and cannot build...

6. There will be no overnight builds if people build correctly with higher level foundaries as your predicting....soounds like you one hand isn't to sure on what the other hand is typing.

People wont use p mode and will instead fleetsave......fleetsaving can easily be done to time your return, after all....you can now fleetsave galaxies away to time it right as it wont cost any hydro.

lol, pie it is a game, not a real world commodity/  Of course, if you wish to roll around with a super huge fleet, then be expected to fuel it.  You want to refer to the real world....well, if your car was a bitch eating petrol costing you 100 per week to run and you could no longer afford that with increasing petrol prices, you would simply get a smaller car......

To many players went full throttle  building ships and still are, not fully realising the implecations of the need to feul them....now, people do FULLY understand (like in your case how it is only going to get worse)

What i am trying to explain here, is that it would be nice for BFG to help us out in a manner which still calls for the need to trade.

Now, there are 2 ways which BFG could change things with immediate effect....

1- Reduce overall hydro cost by 50%anything more is just stupid as your asking BFG to give up their profit


2 -Increasing the amounts tradable per level of hydro store


I love free things, but also respect the financial drop you and anyone would be asking BFG to take by reducing hydro consumption to 0%, 1% or any other stupidly low number

Offline Deadeye

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2014, 11:54:14 AM »
i like idea 2. it would work well for this uni!
You will all bow down to ME!

Offline Ali Baba

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2014, 09:55:40 PM »
Fort this would be a perfect place to post this Rant...

GTFO!!!!

Just upgraded my Hydro mine from Lv80 to Lv82 Right??

Production
Hydrogen: +32,908,366/hr
Energy: -461,013/hr

This was Lv80 ^^

Lv82 Production rate and stuff for Lv82

Production
Hydrogen: +39,908,366/hr
Energy: -461,013/hr

Its hardly Fun Loving moved!! this is bloody unfair beyond belief!! I want to be able to at least make a little bit of my hydro that i use!!! Without having to buy all my Hydro via trades.....I dont mind buying my trades i truly dont!! and thats the truth i am a paying customer! But what i dont want is to be building ships over night and not being able to FRS them because i have FRSed all my junk for the night and i have no hydro!!! or to make it even worse not enough hydro!!!

This is what i make per hour on that planet with the Lv82 Hydrogen mine 259,309,514

Unbloody Fair....

kru

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2014, 10:26:15 PM »
Hydrogen 849,063,027
what i make on a a level 88 per hour

Offline Deadeye

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2014, 02:22:28 AM »
that is like nothing!
You will all bow down to ME!

Offline Conan

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2014, 09:44:04 PM »
Yup, hydro mines are basically useless.  The fleet sizes in this uni make even hydro for an FRS a purchase requirement.  Rarely will you find hydro of any amount sitting without enough def to make it unprofitably to attack for it.  The only way I FRS is with my heph or I would have quit this uni long ago.  I may tear down my biggest hydro mine. LOL

Offline Ali Baba

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2014, 09:49:42 PM »
Conan Well said!

A player asked me how much does it cost me to FRS my ships overnight i said about 5K Credits...


Your Mind has Just Been Blown Away!!

Offline Deadeye

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2014, 10:58:48 PM »
OMG ali ahaha. I am starting to build up fast in conquest. Get ready for you and me to go hit somthing big ;)
You will all bow down to ME!

kru

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Re: hydro cost
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2014, 11:02:50 PM »
i'm thinking about building down and going to hit something small