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Author Topic: Sad day to be KBF  (Read 28527 times)

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Offline Swanvesta

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #165 on: July 23, 2015, 12:59:46 AM »
Russia didn't start Afghanistan issues, the US did by arming and training people who hated them as much as they hated the Russians. The should have left Russia alone. The locals probably would have beat them anyway.

Actually, you have to take your history books back even further to find the root cause of Islamic extremism, it pre-dates the crusades, which incidentally pre-dates the U.S. and U.S.S.R
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 01:17:36 AM by Swanvesta »
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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #166 on: July 23, 2015, 02:05:25 AM »
Well yeah, I was more talking about recently. The ROOT cause of religious extremism is almost always the religion itself. If it weren't for the christians being shackled by society the last few hundred years they'd be exactly the same as the muslims right now. It wouldn't even take them a year to sink to barbarism if we let them.
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Offline Swanvesta

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #167 on: July 23, 2015, 02:44:46 AM »
The ROOT cause of religious extremism is almost always the religion itself.

I prefer to think of it as, the root cause of any extremism is belief itself. Notable examples of this are the new breed of believers, Atheists, particularly those that follow science. It's easy to fool oneself into accepting what we can "measure" with our primitive senses, as fact. They've even got a cop out like religion; God works in mysterious way, or, Science is under constant review.

How can people fervently and passionately persecute non-believers as both do, for things which cannot be proven or may be disproved at some later point?

yeah anyways.. belief sucks.
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Offline Grace

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #168 on: July 23, 2015, 03:43:04 AM »
The U.S. military has always taken a reactionary stance with her nuclear arsenal. Look up the Soviet tactics for the Cold War. Their plan was to bomb every major city in Western Europe with a tactical nuke. And then go in with ground troops. You want to take about who might do it, better turn around and look east. Putin may be the one. But don't worry, the Iranians are not far behind.

this opinion is a product of disinformation. If I can draw your attention back to the days of the cold war and the soviet union, there was an instance where the US was in rage at the audacity of the soviet union in constructing a defensive missile shield to intercept nukes coming from the west. The US responded to this  supposed aggressive move by the soviet union, even though it was purely defensive, by creating missiles which broke up into several other missile mid flight in order to penetrate the defensive shield. Only in the US could this sort of thinking be considered reasonable and the soviet union considered the aggressors.

As far as your Putin comment goes, this is pure fiction and so is your comment about Iran. The only thing Putin is interested in is protecting Russia's own borders from US encroachment under the guise NATO. Even as we speak the US are trying to destabilise Russia via government funded NGOs, just like they did in Ukraine. The problem with this strategy, however, is that Putin is 10 steps ahead of the current US administration so I wouldn't be expecting to see Vic Nuland handing out cookies on red square any time soon.
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Offline Grace

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #169 on: July 23, 2015, 03:56:27 AM »


The tensions in the Chimera now, are because Putin DEMANDS 2 things:



I presume you are referring to Crimea and I must point out that this opinion is also based on disinformation. There is no tension in Crimea. Crimeans actually voted both democratically and overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation. They did so because they refused to recognise the US installed government following the US sponsored coup in Kiev and instead opted for the security and stability of the Russian federation. If you checked your facts rather than accepting CNN propaganda, you would know that the vast majority of the crimea population actually are Russian and not Ukrainian. The administration of the Crimean peninsular was handed over to Kiev by Krushkov (who himself was Ukrainian) whilst he was drunk.
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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #170 on: July 23, 2015, 06:59:23 AM »
I prefer to think of it as, the root cause of any extremism is belief itself. Notable examples of this are the new breed of believers, Atheists, particularly those that follow science. It's easy to fool oneself into accepting what we can "measure" with our primitive senses, as fact. They've even got a cop out like religion; God works in mysterious way, or, Science is under constant review.

How can people fervently and passionately persecute non-believers as both do, for things which cannot be proven or may be disproved at some later point?

yeah anyways.. belief sucks.

Meh, atheists have been persecuted for centuries. It's only natural there'd be a blowback once they started realising how common the lack of belief in a god actually is (and atheism is simply a lack of belief, not a belief in and of itself).
Besides, at least science works. Religion has rarely been the source of a solution to a problem.
Science also doesn't make moral judgements. The biggest religions today are literally told to kill unbelievers, heretics, and followers of other faiths. Any atheist who goes down that road had to come up with it themselves, and probably has justification for it (that doesn't make it right, but it is hardly surprising) that is far superior than words in a book written thousands of years ago.
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Offline von Imhof

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #171 on: July 23, 2015, 10:03:52 AM »
@Grace,

The technology of multiple re-entry vehicles was already in use by the Soviets at that time. MIRV's (multiple independent re-entry vehicles). The Soviets had already deployed this technology. And that still does not change the U.S. stance. They simply developed a system to get around the Soviet defenses should the U.S. have to launch AFTER the Soviets had already done so. No misinformation. First hand knowledge.
We have steadily reduced our nuclear arsenal over the last 30 years. Many of the ICBM installations during my time in the military are long gone. We do not even use our most capable delivery platform, the Peacekeeper missile, due to the SALT agreements. Yet the Russians still use the R-36M missile. It is the largest ICBM in the world. And for reference that is twice the size of what a Peacekeeper was able to carry.
Putin is an old throw back. He longs for the glory days of a Soviet Empire. Now I will not argue that he has concern for NATO incursion close to his former satellites. We did not honor our gentlemanly agreement about not taking those countries into NATO. But he is dangerous. How often is he going to do fly by's over western countries? That was quite an incident over England not to long ago. The regular news barely even scratched the surface of what really went on.
And don't turn a blind eye to Iran. That will be a hot bed in the near future. They attempted to build nukes in the 80's. What makes you think they will not try again?
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Offline Grace

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #172 on: July 23, 2015, 11:36:58 AM »
@Grace,

The technology of multiple re-entry vehicles was already in use by the Soviets at that time. MIRV's (multiple independent re-entry vehicles). The Soviets had already deployed this technology. And that still does not change the U.S. stance. They simply developed a system to get around the Soviet defenses should the U.S. have to launch AFTER the Soviets had already done so. No misinformation. First hand knowledge.
We have steadily reduced our nuclear arsenal over the last 30 years. Many of the ICBM installations during my time in the military are long gone. We do not even use our most capable delivery platform, the Peacekeeper missile, due to the SALT agreements. Yet the Russians still use the R-36M missile. It is the largest ICBM in the world. And for reference that is twice the size of what a Peacekeeper was able to carry.
Putin is an old throw back. He longs for the glory days of a Soviet Empire. Now I will not argue that he has concern for NATO incursion close to his former satellites. We did not honor our gentlemanly agreement about not taking those countries into NATO. But he is dangerous. How often is he going to do fly by's over western countries? That was quite an incident over England not to long ago. The regular news barely even scratched the surface of what really went on.
And don't turn a blind eye to Iran. That will be a hot bed in the near future. They attempted to build nukes in the 80's. What makes you think they will not try again?

I was taking you half seriously until you got up to the point where you said that Putin was an old throw back who longs for the days of the soviet union. This is a classic case of self projection coming from those in the US who feel they have some warped sense of entitlement to the natural resources of the Russian federation. Putin himself is actually more of a modern pragmatist leader whose policies reflect the times and dynamics of the modern world. Granted, he is ex KGB but so what? his foreign policies are effective in drawing a line for US imperialism (hint: this is why they want him out of the way) and his domestic position is reflected in his approval ratings of 89%

The news which barely scratches the surface is the news which usually conflicts with US foreign policy. Take MH17, for example. As soon as this hit the news, instantly, it was Russia, it was Putin, he may have even fired the missile himself from his own bedroom window blah blah yap yap and all kinds of unsubstanciated bs and all this was in spite of the fact that most evidence actually pointed toward the Ukrainian side not only firing this missile, but actually sending the plane through a corridor whci took it directly over a war zone. Russian intelligence pointed to a US satellite in direct orbit over the incident at the time, yet no image was ever made public. Why would you think this is the case?

before you ask yourself how often he will be doing fly bys over western countries, first ask yourself for how long western countries will be doing fly bys around Russian territory. This is normal activity which most countries with an air force engage in. Nothing unusual here except the this activity is only reported from one side with the context eliminated. Speaking of incidents, why don't you look up the Donald cook incident in the black sea
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 11:57:27 AM by Grace »
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Offline kru

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #173 on: July 23, 2015, 12:19:48 PM »
political debates about political leaders and military ideals, stances actions and agreements of western worlds and Russia cannot be argued on a forum where you have multiple pro-Russians..

I am neither pro nor anti Russia, but Grace.....you really do need to step back and listen to what people are talking about in regards the military situation....many folks have served in the forces and are from Europe...we know without doubt the amount and type of incursions that occur daily by Russia..

It is also absurd for you to suggest Putin is a modern leader.....seriously??? you really know nothing....Putin is an ex KGB officer who was raised on the old USSR ideologies....His actions, where you besmirch them in Ukraine, lead me to believe that you do not understand that much...

Putin invaded and re-took control of Georgia, Georgia however was not apart of the EU/Europe and therefore the UN/NATO had no obligation to do anything about it...

Ukraine is vastly different as it chose, as a country to become apart of the EU..  Now...whilst people argue over semantics about voting in Ukraine, you should clearly identify with history and FACT....only the Eastern part of Ukraine wanted to annex Ukraine and re-form as part of Russia, and even that Eastern part isn't fully supportive of the idea..

The issue is that the people of Ukraine wished to have closer ties with Russia (some Ukraine families are separated with parts living in Ukraine and parts living in Russia) but not wanting to reform as part of Russia.  Ukraine had themselves as a country opted for a democratic way of life (voting etc) and they decided that the official they elected as leader was no longer acting in the best interest of the people or the country.  Once a revolution occurred, do you not find it funny how the annexed leader fled to Russia and Putin?

Whilst acceptance has to be made in regards to a revolution that in the democratic world, this doesn't enforce the removal of the leader from office....The annexed leader of Ukraine refuses to return to Ukraine and remains hiding in Russia so that he cannot be held accountable and removed from office in an official and proper manner..

As for the other crap you spurt out, please do not tell me what you think you know about incursions or how long these incursions have been occurring.....In my years as a member of the RAF on the QRA i have a very good and more importantly REALISTIC knowledge which is based yet again on 100% fact as to the amount, type and location of countless THOUSANDS of incursions by the Russians..

In fact grace, due to disinformation, you and millions/billions of other people really have no idea how close it gets sometimes to things escalating and people dieing 
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Offline Swanvesta

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #174 on: July 23, 2015, 12:22:11 PM »
Meh, atheists have been persecuted for centuries. It's only natural there'd be a blowback once they started realising how common the lack of belief in a god actually is (and atheism is simply a lack of belief, not a belief in and of itself).
Besides, at least science works. Religion has rarely been the source of a solution to a problem.
Science also doesn't make moral judgements. The biggest religions today are literally told to kill unbelievers, heretics, and followers of other faiths. Any atheist who goes down that road had to come up with it themselves, and probably has justification for it (that doesn't make it right, but it is hardly surprising) that is far superior than words in a book written thousands of years ago.

ahh dude.. i've just woken up after only a few hours sleep, but even i can spot the glaringly obvious lack of awareness which allowed this post to be believed enough to post. Science really doesnt work.. oh it's hit and miss strategy of never giving up sometimes allows us glimpses into things we still dont comprehend. but science is based on and came from books written thousands of years ago :P

I may come back to this and actually pull apart your statement because, believe me, you really should think about it a little more.
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Offline Swanvesta

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #175 on: July 23, 2015, 01:18:16 PM »
political debates about political leaders and military ideals, stances actions and agreements of western worlds and Russia cannot be argued on a forum where you have multiple pro-Russians..

You may as well have just called us all "commie ba**ards" and be done with it, just because we see evidence to suggest Russia is the entrenched victim of global politics, doesn't mean we're pro Russia. It means we have critical common sense.

I am neither pro nor anti Russia, but Grace.....you really do need to step back and listen to what people are talking about in regards the military situation....many folks have served in the forces and are from Europe...we know without doubt the amount and type of incursions that occur daily by Russia..

Incursions, the same style of incursions that American, English, Chinese, French (the list goes on) have done, and do still? I mean seriously, what's not to love about spy drones flying over your major cities right?

It is also absurd for you to suggest Putin is a modern leader.....seriously??? you really know nothing....Putin is an ex KGB officer who was raised on the old USSR ideologies....His actions, where you besmirch them in Ukraine, lead me to believe that you do not understand that much...

My dad used to beat me, does that mean people will call me a child beater despite my actions as an adult?

Putin invaded and re-took control of Georgia, Georgia however was not apart of the EU/Europe and therefore the UN/NATO had no obligation to do anything about it...

This was a stage event, which the president of Georgia, was held accountable for.. the ramifications of which, HELPED U.S. and allies goals into bringing more countries into NATO.. please step outside your comforting blanket and do some research before you spout this drivel

Ukraine is vastly different as it chose, as a country to become apart of the EU..  Now...whilst people argue over semantics about voting in Ukraine, you should clearly identify with history and FACT....only the Eastern part of Ukraine wanted to annex Ukraine and re-form as part of Russia, and even that Eastern part isn't fully supportive of the idea..

Proof in the pudding... another staged event, to show the EU supports its members. It's all manipulation, one sides does one thing, which leaves the other sides no alternative but either react or become weakened. Just as another point, show me an entire body of people that is full supportive of any idea and I'll show you mass hypnosis.

In my years as a member of the RAF on the QRA i have a very good and more importantly REALISTIC knowledge which is based yet again on 100% fact as to the amount, type and location of countless THOUSANDS of incursions by the Russians..

In fact grace, due to disinformation, you and millions/billions of other people really have no idea how close it gets sometimes to things escalating and people dieing 

So, let me get this straight.. It's O.K. for the U.S. and her allies to slowly but surely take over the world, country by country, adding military bases and such likes in all of them with the promise of aid. But, it's not O.K. for a Russian Ship or plane to enter our space? It's O.K. for spy planes, which have been shot down and proven to be in use, to gather intelligence, but, the Russians have to make do with cold war antiques?

If anyone is raising the heat to boiling, I'd have to say it's the U.S. and her allies. Not only are they doing it themselves, but then they cry when others do it back as a reaction to those incursions.

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Offline kru

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2015, 01:32:24 PM »
thing is, when you have an OPINION on matters like this, you have to bend over, take it and shove it where the sun doesn't shine....

An opinion means nothing based on actual factual evidence..  I do like however how you deliberately tried to troll my entire post there, but intentionally left no comments based on the fact that i can 100% guarantee about the number, type and location of incursions..

that swanny, is what you call trolling...you can't argue against absolute fact, so you make a dozen aspersions about other things.


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Offline kru

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #177 on: July 23, 2015, 01:36:15 PM »
A person with a decisive and clinical mind set in thinking (as you certainly try to indicate you do) would certainly not look at things and suggest they are 'staged events'..

if that is what you believe then you obviously have an outright invalid opinion as you hold no value to human life in any form.

let me bring this into a fictional sense for you....what is going on in Russia right now is a bit like what it is going on with you are newly 'purchased' account...

You (Russia) have all these advancements, all the hardware, power and capability and then you go turn around and use it players who can't really do nothing about it (Ukraine, Georgia, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan-----to name just a few states Russia has BULLIED) 
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Offline kru

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #178 on: July 23, 2015, 01:41:31 PM »
Biggest issue Russia faces right now, is that they are pissing in the yards of the big boys (you know...the ones you tend to avoid) and that this boys not only have the capability to defend themselves (and others) but are more than capable of a first strike...

Why is Ukraine such an importance?  Well, simply because it is a country which opted to join the UN and Nato and become (or at least try) a EU member state..

Wars in Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan were of no general audience with the world as they were not publicized as other wars are...they were known about.....just not made daily information
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Offline Swanvesta

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Re: Sad day to be KBF
« Reply #179 on: July 23, 2015, 01:43:14 PM »
wow.. you really should take a look in the mirror.. what you did, was exactly what you're saying i did.. mine wasnt full of opinion.. it was factual.

I don't argue that the Russians make incursions, because I'm not stupid enough to think they wouldn't or shouldn't. I argued the point that says, WE DO IT MORE REGULARLY THAN THEY EVER WILL. How come you didnt answer that? How come every time i make a point, you deftly swerve?

How come as soon as your points are challenged with information (which can be verified) you suddenly start getting personal?

Kru, you're not who you say you are. 15 years scrubbing oil off a plane doesn't make you army intelligence.
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