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Author Topic: Planet moves and their uses  (Read 14640 times)

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Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2015, 03:02:17 PM »
Let me explain how the Eradeon levels works in conjunction with AWS
An athena E level 10 just need W one level higher than a Heph Eradeon level 0.
The cost of level 1 Eradeon for a heph is higher than the cost of a level 10 Athena, which makes easier for Athenas to always be able to kill a Heph.

In a specific case of two players with same AWS, level 10 Athena and level 0 Heph, the purchase of the commander will tilt the result of the battle. Is not a rare case, since in a universe were resources are scare (i.e. Eradeon) the cost of the research becomes prohibitive. Eradeon is not an universe with rampant inflation. Having same AWS is very common for many players.

I did not felt the need to specify that this thread was related to Eradeon, because all the posters knew and very referring to players and alliance names that belong to Eradeon.

Anyway my point stands, and he can replicated in more than one universe,  of course not all universes.
It has been proven by the OP that he killed a Heph using Athenas, and if he needed to have just one level higher AWS he could buy the commander and kill the heph.

The issue here is not if is difficult or easy, it is features that can be bought to give direct advantage to a player, such as this specific commander

Offline kru

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2015, 03:11:37 PM »
i understand how it works Andy, but you are typing based on assumptions, basing your own figures on Lvl 10 vs Lvl 0.

That is the easiest way to depict things and therefore isn't always the case.  But again, many of us understand how Eradeon works in its application.
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Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2015, 03:28:55 PM »
Non based on assumptions, based on facts

I stated

Quote
The cost of level 1 Eradeon for a heph is higher than the cost of a level 10 Athena, which makes easier for Athenas to always be able to kill a Heph.
A level 11 Athena cost 2.87 mil Eradeon, a level 1 Heph cost 3,13 Mil Eradeon, hence athena can easily keep 10 levels difference of Eradeon with the heph, but that is not the issue, just to let it rest, I admit that I am wrong and you are right. What I stated is not possible to achieve, therefore the AWS commander should not be considered in the list that I posted. There are still 5 others items...

Offline Wargasm

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2015, 07:27:43 AM »
what isn't true?

it wasn't the hep which the lock came from. it was from a planet which was moved to the spot.
You don't know that.  You have no way of definitively knowing whether or not the heph or the planet was oracled to see the return fleet.  Andy may have simply moved a planet to slow the attacker's ability to collect the debris field.  The truth is, I don't need a moon to boomerang a returning fleet, especially one that just created a debris field.

But, for arguments sake, lets say Andy was exploring the galaxy looking for targets and saw this big huge DF in system XYZ.  Still has crystal debris, probably hasn't been scooped yet.  In 90% of heph kills (from a moon/planet, that is) the attacker's proms don't return home before the harvesters scoop debris unless they have very unbalanced tech/eradeon levels.  In this case, Andy had time to lock the returning fleet (and harvesters too?), so the attack had to have landed only a few minutes before Andy noticed the debris field.

Now I'm guessing that the heph that was destroyed was out of system, and I'm also guessing that Andy was significantly closer to STK than the heph was

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This one is different. In other pay to gain features, they benefit the payer directly and only affect others indirectly. A player can work around indirect paid advantages with planning and strategy. This one effectively removes any option a player has of working around a paid feature.


Actually, there are three workarounds that I can think of for the defender.  Unfortunately, two of them require the defender to level the playing field by spending credits.


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Like I said, you can dress this one up and view it however way you will, but in reality, your view in this particular instance is a load of bs

See I'm having trouble determining whether or not you dislike that Andy paid credits to win, or that Andy used a unique maneuver to outsmart an opponent.  Maybe you, like many others, simply don't like Andy, so whatever he does is wrong.

If you don't like "pay to win", P-Mode and Lucky Draw tokens (en-masse) nullify any possible argument you could make with regard to this particular battle.  You can try to argue the "indirect-ness" of P-Mode with me, and I will be happy to fill this post with another 10 pages of back and forth debate with you.

If you don't like being outsmarted by unique maneuvers that people have never used before, then I guess you won't be happy when I lock your returning fleetsaves.

If you don't like Andy... well... take a number.  The most humorous part about this whole fiasco is that STK moved a planet into Andy's system to hunt him.  I find it poetic that Andy used a planet move to kill STK's fleet in response.  Dislike for an opponent has cost many players their fleets in the past because it's easier to make mistakes (such as having attacked to begin with).
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 07:29:33 AM by Wargasm »

Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2015, 11:17:55 AM »
Grace, do you want a work around without the need of paying credits?

Ask to your team mates to GD you, as many players do when they harvest from the heph... is that so difficult?

Wargasm,

I saw the heph, and when I went to oracle hit was gone, I knew that the only player that could have hit that heph was STK (the rest top 10 where in p mode) and I assumed his launched from the same system where my fleet was. Move of planet was just the logical thing to do.



Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2015, 04:42:42 AM »
Well Grace....

I cannot see how you do not understand, maybe my English is so poor...

You can get around this, having your friends/buddies GD you prior attacking, a credit card is not required for a GD. The very same thing that many players do when they harvest from Heph, GD the Heph!

The Group Defend is not there only to defend from an attack, but also to prevent it!

Offline Wargasm

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2015, 05:50:44 AM »
Citing your own example, Grace... there is nothing to prevent the defending player from buying extra queens or being able to pay to move his pawns 2 tiles beyond the first move.

Offline commander abаб

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2015, 07:46:24 AM »
the advantages for credits in this game might be better compared to the parameters of a game of chess. ie you play against someone who likes to pay to give his pawns two square jumps all the way up the board while you only have one other than for the opening move. this might be an advantage or not to the paying player depending on whether he knows how to take advantage of his wider parameters. However, a good skilled player can still defend against this with prior knowledge and appropriate planning.

A planet move to perform an oracle lock is more akin to paying for the ability to take your queen off the board and place it wherever you like to seal the game with a check mate. 

Some paid features make the game more interesting for non paying players because it forces them to step up their game and think differently. The above chess example, however, completely spoils the game and makes a mockery out of it. no matter what the other player does, you cannot work around something like paying for a queen relocation. a novice would be able to beat gary karsparov with one swipe of the credit card, though granted, the paying player would first have to have the vision to see and know where to place it, which Andy did... which shows that he has the capacity to think and observe on a higher and wider level to your average spender, but it is still a move which is only possible with a credit card. no getting around this

A better chess analogy would be paying for advice on which move to make from a supercomputer, as a two pawn movement up the board except for the first would make the pawns very shortlived.

Offline commander abаб

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2015, 07:48:07 AM »
A better chess analogy would be paying for advice on which move to make from a supercomputer, as a two pawn movement up the board except for the first would make the pawns very shortlived.

As for planet moves, they make the game interesting!

Offline commander abаб

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2015, 07:50:08 AM »
Well Grace....

I cannot see how you do not understand, maybe my English is so poor...

You can get around this, having your friends/buddies GD you prior attacking, a credit card is not required for a GD. The very same thing that many players do when they harvest from Heph, GD the Heph!

The Group Defend is not there only to defend from an attack, but also to prevent it!

You are correct about group defends preventing attacks!  It has stopped me before.  :)

Offline commander abаб

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2015, 03:25:36 PM »
A planet move from under an oracle lock attack would  probably not be possible.  The fleets would have to return first.  Assuming a lock of 5-10 seconds or less, it would require watching the fleet screen on your phone and having the move set up on your computer to take place the instant the fleet returns.  Impossible if there is also a harvest fleet returing.

  In SDE Nova, I did move a planet to avoid an attack incoming, but only because the attacker was initiating waves of missile strikes also.  And there was plenty of time, as it was from  far away.

Yes, the attack would bounce off the empty slot :).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 03:28:19 PM by commander abаб »

Offline Wargasm

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2015, 07:34:01 AM »
Pretty sure that a battle does take place Aba6, but the return time of the attacking fleet is shortened/elongated due to the coordinates being different.  If you're right, and I'm wrong, than defenders could simply pay 20 bucks to prevent the destruction of their fleet as the result of any oracle lock by moving their planet before the attack lands.

Grace I'm going to insert an entirely different scenario to prove to you that planet moves can be abused by a defending player same as an attacker.

Lets say you (Grace) attack me (Wargasm).  I see you coming, you have a very big fleet, whos profit exceeds that of my total loss.  You launch, I see you coming, I play dead.  5 seconds before your attack lands, I move my planet several galaxies away and then I fleetsave at the last second.

Not only do you hit nothing but defense, but the server updates with a different return time for you, because it calculates the distance from the new coordinates, NOT the old ones.  As a result, I have a timestamp of when your ships hit, what was in your fleet, and I give this information to my friends who will boomerang your now VERY lengthy return and even have harvesters arrive 30 seconds after.

Perfectly legit strategy, and I can verify with certainty that incoming attacks do NOT prevent a player from moving their planet to another location (unless it has been changed since I playd X1).  I do not know if a planet can be moved while YOUR fleets from that planet are still in motion, I'd need Matt or another player to verify that one.

In your mind, should the attacking player be reinbursed their fleet by BFG for this "exploit"?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 07:36:38 AM by Wargasm »

Offline commander abаб

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2015, 07:42:28 AM »
No battle takes place if there is nothing in that slot I assure you.

Offline kru

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2015, 08:34:46 AM »
last i knew (which is fairly recently) you can't pay to move a planet if you have fleets moving...ie transports, deploys, harvests OR attacks returning.  *added edit* However, you can move a planet if you have an incoming attack providing you have no fleet movements as in the same way as a heph (if you get what i mean)

also, consider a planet move the same as a despawned NPC, or even a FRS'd heph under attack.  The attacking fleet will always go to the original location and not the new location, it will simply 'bounce' off of the old slot and return at its original timing.

*not really sure why you think/thought/suggest/state an attacking fleet will suddenly change co-ords to several galaxies away
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 08:36:30 AM by kru »
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Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2015, 02:20:14 PM »
Is not a loop hole, or why do you think is a loop hole? Anything that you do not like is a loop hole?

It is part of the game mechanics, remove the planets move and you remove those that you call loop holes.

A heph when it is hit leaves an empty slot.

A planet can be moved there

A planet can be oracled and see the fleets returning

The only thing that could be a loop hole is to be able to scan the fleets returning, however if this is the case also in the case that a heph is under attack and lifts, before the attack lands, and than is recalled in case is oracled should not show the returning fleets, because those never landed the attack. However such features has been used by many and there are no "loop holes".
You want to make a planet that has been moved not oracable? What about watching those planets that are moved in the 24 hours cool off period? Remove that?

It is all perfectly within the game mechanics, some you might like, others you might like less.
Another example is, why a player in p mode can be oracled? Or you can send your dios, switch p mode and than before the dios harvest cancel it, they dios will collect, than go back in p mode... all those are mechanics of the game, available strategies to the players...

I have told you how to protect your fleet without spending a single credit, and still keep saying that is a loop hole, you justified it saying was a paid feature that could not be overcome without spending credits, i proved you wrong. Stop beating a dead horse

 

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