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May 21, 2019, 12:54:04 PM

Author Topic: Planet moves and their uses  (Read 14967 times)

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Offline Wargasm

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2015, 12:12:43 AM »
Quote
Which part of that can your warped thinking not come to terms with?

If this is you being polite, I can only imagine how you word your posts when you're pissed off.

Clearly your mind is made up that this is an exploit, and not everyone agrees with you.  There's no need to insult others for their difference of opinion from yours, so stop berating people to try to change their mind.

With regard to transporting to a planet, I can remember when there was a bug that you could deploy to a planet, abandon said planet, and another player places a planet with the deploy still incoming.  What originally would take place is the ships would land, the deploy would complete, and whatever ships were being deployed were now under the ownership of the player who had just dropped a planet at that location.  This bug was fixed 2 years ago to prevent players from "donating" ships to other players, and I am fairly confident that the ability to transport resources in such a fashion was investigated at that time as well. 

This was also around the same time that BFG finally made it so that colonize missions could not be seen on the oracle, due to colonies being insta-gibbed by planet drop/attack/abandons in the X1 days.

Offline Grace

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2015, 12:34:50 AM »
Those posts were directed at andrea for being rude and patronizing. You have it the wrong way round. I am not trying to change anyone's opinion here. Just trying to establish the fact that this is a loophole but it looks like he was right. I am beating a dead horse. He claims it isnt a loophole for some warped reason because it suits his position rather than this view being accurate. You seem to support his irrespective of whether or not the view is correct. This isnt about making up minds. It is about stating things for what they are and this is a loop hole whether you like it, see it, admit it or not. It still is what it is and both of you are showing yourselves to be narrow minded and subjective, even though both of you yourselves are showing this to be a loophole even moreso by describing similar scenarios which have been 'fixed'

Donating ships... you called this a bug, yet it is ()was) made possible from the same basis this very loophole exists(the slot), yet still rationalize it away to suit your position. Your reasoning is not consistent and some of your comments show that you hadnt even bothered to read the thread to understand what happened before you took your position.

Who is everyone, by the way? from what I read throughout this thread, no-one agrees with you.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 12:42:43 AM by Grace »
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Offline commander abаб

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2015, 06:34:34 AM »
BFG did rule it is not a bug..  Considering the game mechanics, I understand.  But, it is a game design flaw that needs to be fixed..

End of discussion.

Offline Wargasm

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2015, 07:51:01 AM »
You want to argue semantics?  Okay, so you think because this "loophole" doesn't need to be fixed, that being able to give built ships to another player didn't need to be fixed?

Just because I cited "similar" scenarios does not make either of them an exploit and the other not an exploit.

Quote
It is about stating things for what they are and this is a loop hole whether you like it, see it, admit it or not.

An opinion cannot be made into fact, no matter how hard you try.  I never said it wasn't a shady tactic, in fact I eluded to establishing that in one of my first replies to this post when I compared it to when a defender with a locked heph lifts his ships to rob the attacker of the DSP and debris, but that is another debate entirely.  My point is, there's a difference between a shady tactic and bug abuse, and BFG has confirmed that this is NOT bug abuse.

Offline kru

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2015, 09:34:12 AM »
being able to give built ships to another player didn't need to be fixed?

ha ha ha ha i remember those early days when that could happen lmao.  Those were the original 'i quit' parties
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Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2015, 10:37:04 AM »
There is no need to go back in the past or invent absurd scenarios...

A player has a planet under attack, let say a MAC, his fleet is locked...he can abandon the planet 5 seconds before his fleet lands, another player can move a planet with a very large fleet and ninja the attacker.
This is possible under the present game mechanics.

Regarding being loop holes or not, this thread has concluded that is a loop hole because Grace has said so.

Offline Grace

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2015, 10:38:11 AM »
wargasm, just because BFG will or wont fix certain things it doesn't necessarily mean they are or are not bugs or loopholes. You can cite BFG as the law, because it is their game, but that does not alter the fact that this is an anomaly within the mechanics. They look at profit before function. This is something you know.

This is not an opinion. The oracle scans the slot rather than the object. This is a fact,  therefore it is a loophole and a bug not by opinion, but by definition. If you see it any other way it is because you are ignoring the basis behind it and your argument is built on a faulty premise.

If you want to argue about something then go back to the basis and argue whether you think the oracle should scan the slot or the object.
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Offline Grace

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2015, 10:55:58 AM »
Andrea

Rationally and objectively, please... do you think that an oracle should scan the object or the empty space in which it is located?
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Offline Wargasm

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2015, 11:47:48 AM »
Wow, you just won't give it up, will you? 

Opinion-  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e. based on that which is less than absolutely certain, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. What distinguishes fact from opinion is that facts are verifiable, i.e. can be objectively proven to have occurred. An example is: "United States of America was involved in the Vietnam War" versus "United States of America was right to get involved in the Vietnam War". An opinion may be supported by facts, in which case it becomes an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. It can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analyzing the supporting arguments.[1] In casual use, the term opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact.

Your opinion does not make a "loophole" a fact.  You think it's shady?  That's your business, and anyone has a right to disagree.  Relentlessly stating your opinion does not turn opinion into fact, or even change my opinion, because I've seen far worse tactics in my SFC career. 

If I launch a missle at a tank sitting on a battlefield, and the tank moves, but another tank takes it's place, THAT tank is going to get blown up.  My missle isn't going to magically disappear, Matt's not going to sprinkle fairy dust on it to make it not explode either.  The missle was targeting a certain distance and trajectory, resulting in the obliteration of whatever was at that coordinate.  I see oracle scans no differently.

Offline Grace

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2015, 12:35:20 PM »
lmao and WOW you!

I don't deal with opinions, I deal with facts, so seeing as you are pulling your dictionary out, let me share with you the definition of what that means from your own chosen source.


* A fact is something that has really occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is, whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experiments or other means).
(source: Wikipedia)

We are discussing an event here which actually occurred which was made possible within mechanics of the game which actually exist and the same outcome could be verified under the same conditions. Incase you hadn't noticed in your haste to support your buddy's position, which is based on a contorted view of reality, we would not be having this discussion if A) this loophole did not exist, and B) if the exploitation of it did not occur.

The very fact (yes, another fact) that you are here arguing, shows that you do have some awareness of this event and this loophole. However, you are choosing (or overlooking) their implications.

Next you will be telling me that the sum of 2+2 is my opinion because 2+4 = 6

Your position is not even an opinion. It is a defensive contortion of the facts, at best, designed to preserve a position which is based on a fallacy. A position which you adopted before you even understood the nature of the event, which makes it even harder to take your position seriously.

I used to respect you as a player and a rational poster who could look at things objectively. Now, however, I doubt I will ever again be able to take you seriously.

A scanning device is not a missile, so there is another fallacy.

I have no opinion on whether I think this is shady or whether it is or isn't a loophole. The only opinion which you correctly could say I have in all of this is that I think this loophole should be closed because it spoils the game by providing direct advantage to paying players.

Your opinion can be that you think this loophole should be left open because it enables your buddy to buy dsp and that is fine. You cant argue with facts, though and no degree of contortion is going to make 2+2 equal any number other than 4 unless you redefine the values beforehand.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 02:19:54 PM by Grace »
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Offline Grace

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2015, 01:19:32 PM »
Here's another definition for you... again from your own chosen source

Loophole
A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent, implied or explicitly stated, of the system. Loopholes are searched for and used strategically in a variety of circumstances, including taxes, elections, politics, the criminal justice system, or in breaches of security, or a response to one's civil liberties.

Loopholes are distinct from lacunae, although the two terms are often used interchangeably. In a loophole, a law addressing a certain issue exists, but the law can be legally circumvented due to a technical defect in the said law. A lacuna, on the other hand, is a situation whereby no law exists in the first place to address that particular issue.

Historically, arrow slits were narrow vertical windows from which castle defenders launched arrows from a sheltered position, and were also referred to as "loopholes".[1] Thus a loophole in a law often contravenes the intent of the law without technically breaking it, much as the small slit window in a castle wall is a small opening in a seemingly impenetrable defensive measure that lets the defender gain the unfair advantage of being able to fire without easily being fired back upon. For example, in some places, one may avoid paying taxes to the jurisdiction by forming a second residence in another location, or a commercial property can be built in a residential zone if it is made also for residential use.[citation needed]

In a security system, the one who breaches the system (such as an inmate escaping from prison) exploits the loophole during the breach. Such weaknesses are often studied in advance by the violator, who spends time observing and learning the routine of the system and sometimes conducts surreptitious tests until such a loophole can be found.
(Source: Wikipedia)

---------------

This function in the game we speak of is a loophole by definition, not by anyone's opinion.

According to your warped interpretation, there is no such thing as a loophole in any system if it is a function within it. This interpretation is false. The only thing which is subject to opinion here is whether you think it should be plugged or left open for exploitation.
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Offline The Real Highlander

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2015, 03:11:53 PM »
Well Kru you have to pass your torch to Grace. You are no longer the master of having to have the last word. Grace sure is opinionated for someone who is not playing in any universe. Patin also has to pass his torch to Grace for trolling.

Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2015, 06:10:38 PM »
Quote
Loophole
A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent, implied or explicitly stated, of the system. Loopholes are searched for and used strategically in a variety of circumstances, including taxes, elections, politics, the criminal justice system, or in breaches of security, or a response to one's civil liberties.

The designers of the game, have decided that the game is performing as per their design. Which means there are not ambiguity or inadequacy in the system.

Conclusion there is no loophole, any loophole is your mind Grace.

Offline Grace

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2015, 07:29:17 PM »
The designers of the game, have decided that the game is performing as per their design.

Redefining the terms is a way of dealing with the above so well done to both you and BFG. I did that myself recently in another scenario. We no longer have any weeds in our garden because they are called wild flowers now ;-)
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Offline Nard

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Re: Planet moves and their uses
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2015, 07:53:39 PM »
Redefining the terms is a way of dealing with the above so well done to both you and BFG. I did that myself recently in another scenario. We no longer have any weeds in our garden because they are called wild flowers now ;-)

Another flawed example, you did not design or invented the weeds that are in your garden...

In fact your example shows your flawed rational and logic, anything that does not fit in your scenarios can be changed arbitrary by you, hence the loop hole that you have created in your mind.
I do not see any point in arguing with you about this... you have not brought any interesting argument to the discussion other than your weeds in the garden

 

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