contact
December 18, 2017, 08:26:28 PM

Author Topic: Defense Ratio  (Read 17406 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline oxymor0n

  • Member
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2010, 02:33:34 PM »
Quote from: "Meepimus"
That planet would be its own sun for the amount of beams shooting off.

rec'd LOL

right now i'm at

50 missiles
30 lasers
10 pulse
10 particle
5 gauss
+decoys

just following my hunch, no calculation watsoever
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Yogi

  • Member
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2010, 05:27:49 PM »
I'm at


Missile: x203
Laser: x125
Pulse: x26
Particle: x5
Anti-Ballistic: x20
Decoy: x1
Gauss: x20
Large: x1


Once my Foundry 1 is finished I churn out 3-5 plasma.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline azzaron

  • Member
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2010, 07:36:40 PM »
Quote from: "Aaria.moon"
Also 3:2:1 is max trade value... I wouldn't want to know how you would be able to trade all resources for that max value.

2.5:1.67:1 would be more realistic. I'd like to know if that changes your values.

Aaria.moon, you do realize that your ore to crystal relationship is exactly the same as his, right? Both of you have ore being worth 50% more than crystal. The only difference is the hydrogen... and most defensive structures don't even use hydrogen (only gauss and plasma).

As such, using your ratio would probably not change his results very much...
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Aaria.moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2463
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2010, 08:49:15 PM »
True enough lol, 3:2:1.3?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
HONEYBEE MALES: DURING COPULATION THEIR BODY EXPLODES APART LIKE GRENADE; GENITALIA HAS HOOKS AND SPINES AND IT WEDGES INTO FEMALE AND SEALS HER OPENING.

Offline Laggynate

  • Member
  • Posts: 2490
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2010, 01:05:04 AM »
Quote from: "Aaria.moon"
True enough lol, 3:2:1.3?

The production coefficients for ore, crystal and hydrogen are 30, 20 and 12 respectively.
3:2:1.2 ;)

I haven't had any free time to look into the differences yet. I'll get around to it soon enough.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
If I have closed a thread that you feel shouldn\'t have been, feel free to send me a pm.
[size=50]As of 10/1/2010 I was able to build Prometheus for the first time[/size]

Offline Aaria.moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2463
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2010, 12:39:36 PM »
What's the difference between production coefficients vs trade values?

Whats with the winky face? PM me if you don't want to say it here :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
HONEYBEE MALES: DURING COPULATION THEIR BODY EXPLODES APART LIKE GRENADE; GENITALIA HAS HOOKS AND SPINES AND IT WEDGES INTO FEMALE AND SEALS HER OPENING.

Offline padraic2112

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2010, 11:09:02 PM »
Quote from: "Laggynate"
An intimidating defense would be like the one I found tonight.

DEFENSES:
* Missile Battery: 2290
* Laser Cannon: 1715
* Pulse Cannon: 150
* Particle Cannon: 160
* Anti-Ballistic Missile: 70
* Decoy: 1
* Gauss Cannon: 182
* Large Decoy: 1
* Plasma Cannon: 112

Now THAT is a defense...

Where is this Count Rugen, so I may kill him?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Praetorian

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2010, 07:00:23 PM »
Awesome def - gotta do the math, but I think he could save for a Zeus without an attack paying off for anyone ;-)
Though it does invite alliance attacks (think ~1000 IPBM's to soften him up)...
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Ekij

  • Member
  • Posts: 182
    • View Profile
A Treatise on defences
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2010, 08:37:23 PM »
As something of a turtle type I thought I'd write a little about defences and the various merits of the different types.

Lots of players will tell you that you don't need defences, and they're sort of
right ... sometimes. If you can be sure you're always going to be able to fleetsave and mineral save then strictly speaking you don't need defences. However sooner or later you're going to mess up, real life will insist that you miss your fleetsave, when that happens it's comforting to know that you might just have enough defences that the attacker passes you by. Remember this game isn't about being so tough they *can't* attack you, it's about being just a little less attractive than the next guy.

Missile Battery: Obviously the cheapest and weakest. Avoid building too many of these early on (when Poseidon can rapid fire through them), laser are better early but you can use them to bulk up your defence shell using them as chaff. Probably wise to never have more than 50% of your defences being missile battery. It's very easy to use up your left over Ore on these at the end of the day.

Laser Battery: Better than missile battery when you're small but vulnerable to Prometheus rapid fire when you're bigger. Useful to bulk up your defences as chaff. Again advisable not to have more than 50% of you’re defences being missile battery.

Pulse Cannon: Has a good chance of destroying an Atremis in a single shot. This makes the Pulse cannon very effective at destroying attacking chaff and making an attack unprofitable (even if it wins). The best hull for cost ratio makes them least vulnerable to IPBMs (InterPlanetary Ballistic Missiles) but always build ABMs (Anti Ballistic Missiles) to protect your defences. Good defence for early players, vulnerability to rapid fire from Ares means these should be used in moderation by stronger players.

Particle Cannon: The large shield gives this defence some survivability especially against chaff attacks where multiple hits *per round* are necessary to take it out. Alas the high crystal cost makes them painful to churn out in large quantities. Later in the game their vulnerability to rapid fire from Ares means stronger players should use these in moderation.

Gauss Cannon: Great for mid level players, it's immune to rapid fire (except from Zeus) which makes it good for breaking rapid-fire attack runs. Often overlooked by large players who favour one Plasma to three Gauss there is still a place for Gauss in a well-balanced defence.

Plasma Cannon: The big daddy of defences. Capable of destroying battle ships in a single shot (sometimes) the Plasma is a great deterrent but having to rapid fire itself it's vulnerable to being overwhelmed by chaff attacks. Ensure you have plenty of chaff yourself to protect the plasmas. Pulse are a good compliment to the Plasma.

Decoy: Wonderful, as soon as you can build one on every world. It's cheap enough that it can be easily replaced if destroyed and it forces an attacker to send a few big ships with the freighters (when placed on a mining world), the big shield just soaks up the damage even from multiple hits. There's a good reason why you're restricted to just one, it's too good to let you have more than one!

Large Decoy: Similar to the decoy except it's large cost means most people can't replace it easily if destroyed. For homeworld defence it's somewhat lost by the fact that you should have so many other defences that it's % change of getting hit goes down. It's actually less useful than the normal decoy but should still be built on Homeworld/fleetworlds.

As with so many things in this game the answer is balance. There is no single defence that does everything for you, your attacker will adapt to whatever defence you have so you need to have some of ever
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
"No Moon - No fleet".   Oracles suck because they chage a fundamental concept of the game.

Offline Xight

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
Re: A Treatise on defences
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2010, 09:54:03 PM »
Quote from: "Ekij"
it's about being just a little less attractive than the next guy.

But I'm prettier than you.  :lol:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Praetorian

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: A Treatise on defences
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2010, 06:28:38 PM »
Quote from: "Ekij"
As something of a turtle type I thought I'd write a little about defences and the various merits of the different types.

Lots of players will tell you that you don't need defences, and they're sort of
right ... sometimes. If you can be sure you're always going to be able to fleetsave and mineral save then strictly speaking you don't need defences. However sooner or later you're going to mess up, real life will insist that you miss your fleetsave, when that happens it's comforting to know that you might just have enough defences that the attacker passes you by. Remember this game isn't about being so tough they *can't* attack you, it's about being just a little less attractive than the next guy.

n1. You forgot the countermissile (always have 40+), and personally I switched to lasers for chaff, particle as mainstay and  a 1:2.5 plasma/gauss ratio against capships. Pulse is nice, but after all mine died during the last IPBM attack I didn't bother to rebuild, since particle is so much better because they're hard to kill, which is what you need to give your big guns time to do the real work. But then, I don't build much fleet so I've got crystal to spare.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Ekij

  • Member
  • Posts: 182
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2010, 07:10:27 PM »
I didn't mention ABM as they aren't a normal defence.
Yes you need ABM in proportion to how heavily defended a world is.
A truly heavy shell needs 40+.
A light shell might be fine with 5.
Again it's all about making the attack unprofitible.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
"No Moon - No fleet".   Oracles suck because they chage a fundamental concept of the game.

Offline TheSlorg

  • Member
  • Posts: 169
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2010, 11:15:34 AM »
On Snailfleet (the non-extreme version of Starfleet), I had the following defense:

1150 x Missile Turret
1000 x Laser Turret
300 x Pulse Cannon
100 x Particle Cannon
1 x Decoy
50 x Gauss Cannon
1 x Large Decoy
23 x Plasma Cannon


It didn't take too much effort to create that defense (just dumping excess resources into it after buying tech upgrades now and then).


That defense held off over 450 ships, including 43 Prometheus and a Zeus.


I ended up with about 2 million total resources in losses after the rebuild. This was completely made up when I collected the entire debris field.


My attacker suffered 25 million total lost resources. Only his Zeus survived to fight another day.

Just to give you an idea.



This defense was later destroyed by 95 IPM's. The attackers spend over 1 million in total resources to knock out my defense, and came away with only 800,000 in earnings.

This was after I had retired, so they wasted 200k resources (+ hydro) to knock out an inactive player. Just a lesson that, if you are active, make sure to build up those ABM's. There are people willing to attack without profit just to knock down a defense.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
Leader of the Outcast Gods
Moons Given - 0
Moons Received - 0

Offline ButtheirApparent

  • Member
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: A Treatise on defences
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2010, 10:43:42 PM »
Quote from: "Ekij"
As something of a turtle type I thought I'd write a little about defences and the various merits of the different types...
Wow.  This is fantastic.  Thanks!

As a fellow turtle, I was getting worried that unless I was raiding my neighborhood every couple days, l wasn't going to get anywhere. I'd been fleet saving where I could, but hadn't been able to save up enough to A) research and B) build a large enough transport fleet.   I think I may have spread myself too thin.  I did multiple colonies and built those up as quick as I could.  I set up some perfunctory defenses-- half-a dozen missiles and lasers, and that did OK against some newb raids, but before I knew it, I'd crossed the 5000 resources spent mark and was now fair game for everyone.  And come they did.  Saving up my resources to research and build anything resembling a respectful defense only seemed to attract more pillagers.  I've only recently unlocked the "Large Decoy" and have made installing those on my big planets a priority, but that resource cost is hurting.  Where I'm at now, I've got:

    12 Missiles
    12 Lasers
    8 Pulse
    1 Decoy
    5 Particle
    4 Gauss
    1 Large

I can dream about that Plasma cannon all day.  But that's a ton of research and a long time away.  So far this setup seems to be making other targets more attractive, but from this it sounds like I need to bulk up my fodder defenses if only to spread out the hits away from my expensive guns.

Maybe you'll feel this belongs in the n00b forum, but I was kind of hoping for some guidance for players at earlier levels, I mean players even below my own humble self.  It's true, they don't have to worry too much about Zeuses, but it might be good to give some pointers towards laying the foundations for a decent defense early on.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline LordFerret

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Defense Ratio
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2010, 07:06:12 AM »
Being no defense is impenetrable, I only build in the beginning to fend off approximate equals or lower ranked raiders. For everything, starting with missles, I build 1:5 (fodder principle). For the most part though I see defenses as a waste of res, res that could be used to level-up mines or techs or fleet.

However, I'm still learning so this opinion will possibly change in time. :mrgreen:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
LordFerret aka Herr Fretchen

Alliance: MJSF (Mamma Jamma\'s Star Fleet), Leader
Planets: Ferret\'s Burrow, Little Toy, Litter Box, Food Bowl, Big Toy