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Author Topic: A new Technique?  (Read 1189 times)

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Offline A. Hachie

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A new Technique?
« on: February 23, 2010, 04:17:52 AM »
I just thought of a technique, to discourage a ninja...

Say you find a planet, with a small fleet and alot of resources. You know the guy, has another colony in the same system with a large fleet. The worry is he will send the large fleet to the planet you are attacking to ninja you. But picture this scenario: You launch a small attack fleet, and a lot of hercs, to steal the resources on colony A(and kill the small fleet and defenses). Then you wait a bit. You launch a large fleet of hades at colony A also. You time it to hit 2 seconds after your small fleet. If the guy sent a ninja fleet from colony B to hit your small fleet, your Hades, will wipe out the ninja. because he can see the hades coming, he has to choose, do i recall the ninja to avoid losing it, or do i ninja the first attack, and take the loss. The obvious answer would be for him to recall the ninja, thus allowing you to walk in unobstructed and take his stuff out.
   
does that make sense to anyone, lol
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Offline bryn987

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 05:09:10 AM »
the timing is still on his side though.  You would have to launch your hades before he launches his ninja.  Your hades is about 50 minutes away while his is about 33 minutes away
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Offline A. Hachie

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 05:18:33 AM »
good point, i guess it would work if colony B was in a neighbouring system
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Offline A. Hachie

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 05:21:12 AM »
Either way, if you launched the double fleet (one small, one large) and spread them out by say 40 seconds.  He would see both, and would have to choose which fleet to ninja.  In my opinion, he would want to ninja the larger second fleet.  So once you land the first wave.... just recall the large fleet, and get the hell out.
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Offline Dampaq.Pale.Horseman

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 07:00:40 AM »
Quote from: "A. Hachie"
Either way, if you launched the double fleet (one small, one large) and spread them out by say 40 seconds.  He would see both, and would have to choose which fleet to ninja.  In my opinion, he would want to ninja the larger second fleet.  So once you land the first wave.... just recall the large fleet, and get the hell out.

If you know the guy is on, then you would be foolish to do anything, like this..

In this situation, just launch for the resources, and when your attack is 15 to 20 mins out, then probe his other colony, if the big fleet is still there, continue, if not recall...
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Offline sfman

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 09:14:35 AM »
Quote from: "Dampaq.Pale.Horseman"
Quote from: "A. Hachie"
Either way, if you launched the double fleet (one small, one large) and spread them out by say 40 seconds.  He would see both, and would have to choose which fleet to ninja.  In my opinion, he would want to ninja the larger second fleet.  So once you land the first wave.... just recall the large fleet, and get the hell out.

If you know the guy is on, then you would be foolish to do anything, like this..

In this situation, just launch for the resources, and when your attack is 15 to 20 mins out, then probe his other colony, if the big fleet is still there, continue, if not recall...

What if he sees the probe coming and just does a self-deploy to avoid the probe? You'd end up recalling for no reason...
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Offline D.Q.A>

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 12:55:23 PM »
this is a very dangerous tactic. which will lead to a ninja of your ninja, as you also forget about others also being able to get the planet in time and could end up in a complete loss for you and only moderate losses for the other side.
watching the bigger fleet is not always the correct choice either, as that is not necessarily the planet of where a ninja fleet comes from and could just be a ploy for you to fall for that.
so yes a very dangerous tactic. one that a experienced player like yourself should be able to see the downfall to yourself.
and it is not always possible to ensure the 2second second strike time that you mention due to the lag at launch time.
and also an experienced player like myself operates in multi tabs and when both attacking and defending has a fleet page open and ready to avoid the ninjas.
whilst in theory it sounds good,putting into practice is another matter entirely so you have a few poss outcomes on this
1 you succseed
2 your res wave is ninjaed and your second wave misses
3 your res wave is ninjaed and then your second wave is also ninjaed
4 or you can go all that way and tie down 2 fleet slots for nothing due to a flt and res save.
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Offline Dampaq.Pale.Horseman

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 01:07:38 PM »
Quote from: "sfman"
Quote from: "Dampaq.Pale.Horseman"
Quote from: "A. Hachie"
Either way, if you launched the double fleet (one small, one large) and spread them out by say 40 seconds.  He would see both, and would have to choose which fleet to ninja.  In my opinion, he would want to ninja the larger second fleet.  So once you land the first wave.... just recall the large fleet, and get the hell out.

If you know the guy is on, then you would be foolish to do anything, like this..

In this situation, just launch for the resources, and when your attack is 15 to 20 mins out, then probe his other colony, if the big fleet is still there, continue, if not recall...

What if he sees the probe coming and just does a self-deploy to avoid the probe? You'd end up recalling for no reason...

If he starts pulling tricks, you know he is on, and the attack will be or should be for naught...
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Offline Loa

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 01:37:18 PM »
The tactic of doubling up an asset, be it fleet. planet or single vehicle is called a 'Lancaster Square.' it's a very old tactic but a very effective one that's still used in the modern military. The only effective way to deal with it is to square back but it's this that leads to an escalation in conflict. It's best to use to equal units rather than a weaker one and a stronger one as experienced commanders know the weaker one is just bait to draw you out into the path of a stronger attack but equal units leaves the opponent guessing which is the faint and and which is the actual attack, it also leaves you the chance to swap, making the faint the real attack and leaving second attack free to be used as direct support or as a flanking maneuver. It also allows for pincer attacks where two elements attack the same target from opposing directions. Watch out for any player or alliance named after a Games Workshop concept, such as the Space Wolves or Ork Horde. Warhammer 40k teaches this exact tactic and has allowed the development of many interesting variations such as leap frogging fleets over each other so that first one leads and one supports and then they swap roles for the next attack. This spreads losses equally between the two elements and allows them to operate up to four times longer than just a single fleet. People often thing that the second element has twice the advantage, but this isn't true, get it right and they have four times the advantage hence the name 'square'.

By way of example; Two tanks attack one victim tank. The victim can only concentrate its fire on one target while taking twice that much fire in return, it dies quickly while only slightly damaging one of it's attackers. Those two tanks proceed onto the next victim and swoop places, again they quickly over whelm the victim and are now two lightly damaged tanks. They then move on to the third and forth victims, quickly over whelming them and ending up both with moderate to sever damage. Experienced commanders withdraw them at this point allowing them to fix their tanks back up to full strength while the opponent has lost four tanks. That's the theory anyway, but remember in any war the first casualty is always the plan and I don't know how real life tactics like that equate to an abstract game like Starfleet Commander.
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Offline Admiral Robodo

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 01:55:30 PM »
interesting tactic but not worth the risk imo.. i'm a regular poker player so I tend 2 play SFC with a similar attitude... Point being that if I know the defending player is online during an attack then I would simply hit recall and live 2 fight another day (i.e. fold & save ur chips 4 a better hand!).. coz even IF he wasnt planning a ninja then he'd simply fleet/resource save at the last minute.... in fact 9.9/10 times it's a lose-lose situation 4 an attacking player if the defending player is already online... so as far as I'm concerned it's simply a case of tryin 2 work out if the defending player is online or not... & if he is then get da hell outta dodge!  :lol:
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Offline Laggynate

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 02:20:27 PM »
If he's online and can move the res why are you trying this at all?
It's just plain pointless and someone could easily hit your return if they don't ninja you.
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Offline A. Hachie

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 06:24:08 PM »
just so we are all clear, this is not something i have tried or would try, it just came to me last night.  so I wrote it here, before i forgot.  

I cant believe i didnt think of the guy fleetsaving........ duh.
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Offline Polynikes

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 12:13:38 AM »
Quote from: "Admiral Robodo"
9.9/10 times it's a lose-lose situation 4 an attacking player if the defending player is already online... so as far as I'm concerned it's simply a case of tryin 2 work out if the defending player is online or not... & if he is then get da hell outta dodge!  :lol:

I'm happy to tell you that I found that .1 time last night. I had a target online doing nothing but sending angry messages and threatening me as I watched my fleets sail into his horde of resources. Some people just have no concept of defensive strategy.  :P
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Offline Admiral Robodo

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Re: A new Technique?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2010, 09:20:18 AM »
Quote from: "Polynikes"
Quote from: "Admiral Robodo"
9.9/10 times it's a lose-lose situation 4 an attacking player if the defending player is already online... so as far as I'm concerned it's simply a case of tryin 2 work out if the defending player is online or not... & if he is then get da hell outta dodge!  :lol:

I'm happy to tell you that I found that .1 time last night. I had a target online doing nothing but sending angry messages and threatening me as I watched my fleets sail into his horde of resources. Some people just have no concept of defensive strategy.  :P

hehe.. gud 4u.. but what was your defender's rank #? I'm assuming somewhere in the +10k range? the reason i ask is bcoz the lower the defender's rank #, then the bigger your attacking fleet must be = the greater your loss if u get ninja'd! In other words, u will eventually reach a level where pursuing that .1 is simply not worth it anymore!  :lol:
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