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Author Topic: Oracle change was choice C, not B  (Read 2486 times)

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Offline Vanessa

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Oracle change was choice C, not B
« on: March 07, 2010, 01:42:49 AM »
From Matt's Oracle Poll thread

Quote from: "Perseus"
Why would BFG listen to the minority of players?

Ironically ... I think they did.

Before the change, Oracles can see all fleet tasks on the planet, with the sole exception being recalled deploys.

The change announced on March 5 was
Quote
Oracles now see recalled deploys, and no longer see harvest missions. They also cost only 5k hydrogen to use.

The poll was (this was a little bit later on March 5):
Quote
How would you change the Oracle?
A -- I wouldn't.    18% [ 17 ]
B -- Block Harvests 59%  [ 57 ]
C -- Block Harvests but show recalled deploys. 14% [ 13 ]
D -- Block outbound deploys. 9% [ 9 ]
Total votes : 96

If you look carefully, they implemented choice C.

If they picked choice B -- which was the "majority" choice, the recalled deploy would still be invisible.


Now ... I'm not sure why BFG decided that having the recalled deploy visible makes the game balanced.  Perhaps they thought that they can make up for the "nerf-to-not-see-Harvests" by giving the Oracle a "minor adjustment" to see the recalled deploy.

Unfortunately, I think they simply made it more difficult for the player who's trying to "escape" the Oracle.

What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline saryne

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 01:50:52 AM »
It's fine as it is. Yes, if you deploy to another planet overnight you have to be worried. But then again if you stay at your planet with the harvest save, you're fine. The Oracle has to have some bonus for the cost. If you want to deploy, go into D mode, deploy, and exit D mode. You save hydro, deploying over 48 hours. You save having to log into the game and worry. You save sleepless nights.

Personally I'd have kept "can't see recalled deploys" But I can live with the change.

I don't get raped for having my fleet deploy as I have a counter, D mode. I make less resources from my colonies but my fleet is safe.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
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Offline Dampaq.Pale.Horseman

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 01:52:02 AM »
Quote from: "Vanessa"
If you look carefully, they implemented choice C.

If they picked choice B -- which was the "majority" choice, the recalled deploy would still be invisible.

Kinda strange?

Not really, before it was only one thing that could not be seen, it still is one thing that can not be seen..

Though I do see your point about the questionnaire, maybe that was flawed, plus all the wihngers didn't think that recalled deployments mattered...

Either way, I don't want to see anymore changes....As it stands it can make the game more challenging, but then again, without challenge there would be no point playing.. I just don't want this changing every 5 mins..
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Offline saryne

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 01:54:21 AM »
In Original or Extreme? If it's Extreme I'm guessing your data is old ;)
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Offline Bleys

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 01:58:36 AM »
If someone does a deploy, lets say 3 galaxies away, and does it super slow, say 48 hours, I can probably drop a gaia on them and deploy there and be there the second they land.

Now, if they recall, its 48 hours back ... right to my moon, and beat them back easily.

Its a bad change. It unbalances the game horribly IMHO. It actually makes Victors "checkmate" scenario more doable. I will be happy to demonstrate as soon as I get a couple moons, given the coverage my alliance has already starting.
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Offline Matt

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 01:59:45 AM »
Well, the thing is there are people without moons and people with moons. Of course if we put it to a vote, nerfing the Oracle is going to be way more popular than not nerfing because most people don't have moons yet.

So we didn't want to totally nerf the Oracle and I knew we never would. I think it may actually be just as good now as it was before, it's just different in that it doesn't hurt people who really like to fleetsave by a harvest. You guys convinced me that there are good reasons why harvest fleetsaves need to be left as an option, rather than just doing long deploys.

But still we didn't want to totally nerf it, which I think would have been the case without showing recalled deploys.
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Offline Bleys

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2010, 02:01:17 AM »
Its significantly stonger IMHO.

No worries, I will show you in-game, if thats how it is in Extreme. Trust me, I already have my wheels churning, its not going to be pretty for some of these guys.
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Offline Matt

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 02:01:51 AM »
Quote from: "Bleys"
If someone does a deploy, lets say 3 galaxies away, and does it super slow, say 48 hours, I can probably drop a gaia on them and deploy there and be there the second they land.

Now, if they recall, its 48 hours back ... right to my moon, and beat them back easily.

Its a bad change. It unbalances the game horribly IMHO. It actually makes Victors "checkmate" scenario more doable. I will be happy to demonstrate as soon as I get a couple moons, given the coverage my alliance has already starting.

I think it's a stretch to call something unbalancing because it can catch people doing super slow deploys 3 galaxies away. If you do dumb stuff, you get caught. If someone does a full speed deploy you'll never get them.
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Offline Vanessa

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2010, 02:02:26 AM »
Matt's latest post
Quote from: "Matt"
I have to check into the speed. We wanted it to take about a day to go a full Galaxy, we may have made a miscalc on that. It will get sped up at least some.

I do think the Oracle is turning out to still be very good. It gives you pretty solid control over an area since you can see all of the people attacking, trading, transporting, deploying, etc. You can't crush fleetsavers anymore, but that's always been what the game is about.

I think most importantly it will lead to more alliance communication too. You might see a deploy going 2 galaxies away and tip off your alliance mates. I'm all for anything that increases the utility of alliances, in fact we maybe should make scans shareable.

I've highlighted the parts I thought interesting.
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Offline Vanessa

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2010, 02:03:23 AM »
Quote from: "Matt"
I think it's a stretch to call something unbalancing because it can catch people doing super slow deploys 3 galaxies away. If you do dumb stuff, you get caught. If someone does a full speed deploy you'll never get them.

Except with a Warp Gate in the right place
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Offline Bleys

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2010, 02:33:28 AM »
Quote from: "Matt"
Quote from: "Bleys"
If someone does a deploy, lets say 3 galaxies away, and does it super slow, say 48 hours, I can probably drop a gaia on them and deploy there and be there the second they land.

Now, if they recall, its 48 hours back ... right to my moon, and beat them back easily.

Its a bad change. It unbalances the game horribly IMHO. It actually makes Victors "checkmate" scenario more doable. I will be happy to demonstrate as soon as I get a couple moons, given the coverage my alliance has already starting.

I think it's a stretch to call something unbalancing because it can catch people doing super slow deploys 3 galaxies away. If you do dumb stuff, you get caught. If someone does a full speed deploy you'll never get them.
Unless my alliance mate is up that way. You even mentioned that yourself.

That was just an example. People "fleetsave" overnight on deploys all the time, at least I assume they do. Maybe their main fleet is a Harvest fleetsave, but the colonies build stuff and ship stuff and a lot of players dont like to tie up slots while they play so they use the overnight method. My standard method of play is ship res from my fleet where I was farming to the colonies in the mornings, build fleet there all day, and ship it back down overnight. I am guessing I am not the only one who plays like this, it makes sense. Now I cant do that. Heck, if an alliance has moons near both of my planets with fleeters on em, I cant even safely deploy any built fleet to my main. It can be spotted and crashed at both ends.

The balancing factor of the Oracle is the invisibility of the recalled deploy. It allows players to send res and fleet into one place safely, because if someone spots me shipping the rez to build a lvl 30 Metal Mine, I can recall. Now, if I have to recall a 20 million resource shipment, it can be hit on the return, and it doesnt cost them a zillion deut tryinng to spot it on their lanx.

No worries, I plan to demonstrate my points when I get some moons of my own.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
Brute Force, if its not working, you\'re just not using enough.

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Offline saryne

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2010, 02:41:58 AM »
And so the 'whiners' get theirs and the 'cheaters' get theirs.
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Offline Sid82

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2010, 02:50:33 AM »
Quote from: "codename_B"
are you going to troll every single post I make? pm me your coordinates in extreme, I'll come and get you.

just curious how you would get anyone on extreme as you are still (s)
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Quote from: \"LHDR\"
Quote from: \"Sid82\"
-1 don\'t need a reason other than this is a stupid idea
Quote from: \"LHDR\"
"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds."~Albert Einstein
doesn\'t work when idea IS stupid
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8493

Offline Sid82

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2010, 03:02:35 AM »
I'll be sure to keep an eye on that...although doesn't really affect me...I've never come across you in game...original or extreme
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
Quote from: \"LHDR\"
Quote from: \"Sid82\"
-1 don\'t need a reason other than this is a stupid idea
Quote from: \"LHDR\"
"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds."~Albert Einstein
doesn\'t work when idea IS stupid
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8493

Offline Sid82

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Re: Oracle change was choice C, not B
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2010, 03:16:16 AM »
Quote from: "codename_B"
If you want to change that, pm me your in-game name ;)

maybe after I decide exactly what galaxy I want to settle down in rather than having planets, and fleets, in 5 different galaxies lol
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
Quote from: \"LHDR\"
Quote from: \"Sid82\"
-1 don\'t need a reason other than this is a stupid idea
Quote from: \"LHDR\"
"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds."~Albert Einstein
doesn\'t work when idea IS stupid
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8493

 

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