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Author Topic: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?  (Read 465 times)

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Offline Vanessa

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Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« on: March 22, 2010, 09:11:28 PM »
Taken from the Loans thread

Mark Jaques asked a question of BFG and got Some Answers ... one of which is:

Quote
from Markjacques6
There is some one in the forums wanting a loan of a friend that is a higher ranker but isn't sure if there was some way of paying is friend back when he can. Is there any way that this can be done?

from John Hunka  of  Blue Frog Gaming
The only way that it can is by doing multiple favorable trades within the required ratios. By doing several trades back and forth, you can effectively "give" resources this way.


Does that mean that multiple favorable trades is a legal method of transferring resources to the higher-ranked player?

For example, using 2 trades:

Trade 1:
Lower Ranked: gives 20000 Ore
Higher Ranked: gives 10000 Hydrogen

Trade 2:
Lower Ranked: gives 10000 Hydrogen
Higher Ranked: gives 3334 Ore


Essentially, the 10000 Hydrogen is passed back and forth; but the Lower Ranked has a "net loss" of 16666 Ore, and the Higher Ranked has a "net gain" of 16666 Ore.

I had thought that doing this kind of multiple trades is actually considered pushing; but it seems John Hunka is saying it's legal??

Are multiple trades like this the LEGAL way of pushing?
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Offline Dampaq.Pale.Horseman

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2010, 09:14:42 PM »
The game wouldn't enable you to do at those quoted figures

Try not to over exagerate

Max, min

Ore to Hydrogen  3:1 , 2:1
Ore to Crystal  2:1 , 1.5:1
Crystal to Hydrogen  2:1 , 1:1
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Offline vanvely

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2010, 09:36:08 PM »
I think the OP got the ore-hydro ratio flipped around (3 ore to 1 hydro, not 3 hydro to 1 ore), but I see the point. That's a good question.

To satisfy the trade limits, that example should really be:

Trade 1:
Lower Ranked: gives 30kOre
Higher Ranked: gives 10k Hydrogen

Trade 2:
Lower Ranked: gives back 10k Hydrogen
Higher Ranked: only gives back 20k Ore

Higher ranked player gains 10k ore

Maybe Matt or the devs can comment on this...
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Offline Dampaq.Pale.Horseman

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2010, 09:39:58 PM »
It allows for a style of play The Trader

Quote from: "Laggynate"
Here's the standardized terminology I use.

Income:
+ Mining: Income is produced from the mines in ones empire.
+ Raiding: Relatively quick and small attacks. Usually, but not always, derives the bulk of the profit from resources captured.
+ Harvesting: Relatively large hits involving large fleets. The profit often comes from both plunder and the resultant debris field.
+ Trading: Exchanging one type of resource for another several times in such a way that one gains more than the would be expected from the accepted trade ratio of that universe.


Expenditure:
- Builder: Focusing a majority of income towards the upgrading of mines and infrastructure.
- Fleeter: Focusing a majority of income towards the bolstering of an accounts fleet.
- Juggernaut: A notable subset of the fleeter who [proportionally] invests heavily in the construction of Zeus.
- Researcher: Focusing a majority of income towards the upgrading of techs.
- Turtle: Focusing a majority of income towards strengthening massive defenses on one or more planets.

A player could be any combination of these though some combinations are quite rare, such as a trading researcher.
Play style is determined by what is the majority income and expenditure method for an account.
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Offline Laggynate

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2010, 09:52:04 PM »
Also, remember you will take losses as it costs hydrogen to transport the resources.
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Offline bryn987

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2010, 09:58:44 PM »
I think there are much bigger concerns then this.  Such as the issues with processing deployments and attacks on the game server.
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Offline Victor Doom

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2010, 10:11:49 PM »
:evil: The People who tend to wrack thier brains on how to skirt or how to legally Push to a higher ranked player are usually the one's with the dual accounts
.
 :evil: They're usually trying to figure out how to funnel resources from their secondary account to their primary...
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Offline Vanessa

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2010, 10:24:57 PM »
Quote from: "vanvely"
To satisfy the trade limits, that example should really be:

Trade 1:
Lower Ranked: gives 30kOre
Higher Ranked: gives 10k Hydrogen

Trade 2:
Lower Ranked: gives back 10k Hydrogen
Higher Ranked: only gives back 20k Ore

Higher ranked player gains 10k ore

Maybe Matt or the devs can comment on this...

Thanks for the correction!
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Offline Vanessa

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Re: Multiple Trades = LEGAL Pushing ?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2010, 10:31:46 PM »
Quote from: "Victor Doom"
The People who tend to wrack thier brains on how to skirt or how to legally Push to a higher ranked player are usually the one's with the dual accounts

That's a good point, Victor Doom.

And that's actually also why I would have thought those kind of transactions is considered Pushing.  I was surprised when I saw John Hunka's response.


The thing is, "the Loans thread" did bring up a scenario that seems perfectly valid to me:  A higher ranked player gives a lower ranked player some resources, and the lower ranked players feels obliged to pay him back.  It's a scenario that some guilds may have, and having some kind of mechanism that allows for it to happen can be valuable.
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