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Author Topic: Advanced Pushing Technique  (Read 1184 times)

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Offline Andrade III

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Advanced Pushing Technique
« on: April 16, 2010, 08:50:52 AM »
Specifically, the lower-ranked player transports resources to an inactive planet, with an attack (or several attacks) from the higher ranked player timed to land very soon after.  This results in resources flowing from the lower ranked player to the higher one, which is pushing and very against the rules.  Several people I know have opened tickets to report this practice, and have simply been informed that the offender 'was only raiding inactives'.

Is anyone else aware of this going on?

Blue Frog, do you have the proper logs to catch this, and do you actually check such logs when investigating a report of pushing?

This sort of thing destroys the game, giving a few players a huge advantage over everyone else.  In similar games that have been running longer, the penalties are dire... personally, I advocate the stocks for pushers  :twisted:
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Offline Bleys

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 12:20:24 PM »
There are dozens of ways to cheat. Why are you posting one on a public forum?
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Offline LIKEATHIEFINDANITE

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 12:36:05 PM »
WORD'
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Offline Andrade III

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 01:22:44 PM »
Quote
There are dozens of ways to cheat. Why are you posting one on a public forum?

There aren't that many ways to cheat, and they're all detectable by Blue Frog Gaming in one way or another.  I'm asking for input from other players on how much of an impact the practice is having on the game, as well as for feedback from BFG about how they deal with it.
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Offline Bleys

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 02:24:06 PM »
Quote from: "Andrade III"
There aren't that many ways to cheat, and they're all detectable by Blue Frog Gaming in one way or another.
Yes, there are ... and no, they arent.

Whatever man. I am sure BFG is going to post their internal studies on the impact of cheaters on their game.

I request this thread be closed, drawing attention to cheaters or methods of cheating doesnt help ANYTHING.
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Offline Andrade III

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A New beginning Hope-fully
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 02:47:40 PM »
If you can't be bothered to read a big scary paragraph, I boiled it down:

Hey everybody!  There's a nasty cheat being used by some of the biggest players and alliances!  If you are caught doing this, you'll very likely be banned!  Please post here iff:

1) You are aware of examples of it.

2) You are BFG and have a response-perhaps "We are aware and are doing something/nothing." or "We were not aware and will do something/nothing."

3) You have some argument/explanation for why it is not a cheat.

If you don't think this thread is worthwhile, feel free not to post in it.  Or post that you think it should be deleted, thus bumping it.  Either way.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 04:49:57 PM by Andrade III »
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Offline Darkeye

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 03:29:56 PM »
Quote from: "Bleys"
There are dozens of ways to cheat. Why are you posting one on a public forum?

+1
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Offline Bleys

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Re: A New beginning Hope-fully
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2010, 05:30:27 PM »
Quote from: "Andrade III"
If you don't think this thread is worthwhile, feel free not to post in it.  Or post that you think it should be deleted, thus bumping it.  Either way.
How about I just keep telling you to stop posting such garbage. Cheaters suck. Do you know of players using this particular cheat? Report them, then post their names here, that would be a lot better than this "hey, I thought of a way to cheat, arent I cool" crap you are doing now.
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Offline DEMON KNIGHT

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2010, 05:53:03 PM »
If you have to cheat while playing a browser based game to make yourself feel all big and powerful????????


What a SAD LIFE YOU MUST HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel pity for those people.  Truly I do.  I mean JEEBUS people.  It's a bright beautiful day here where I live.  Get a life and go outside.

As for worrying about Cheaters.   I don't have the time for it.  (Read above statements)
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Offline Pragmatic

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 06:01:14 PM »
(Weird, I thought I posted something, but must have hit the wrong button...)

If this counts as cheating, it seems like a lot of effort.  It'd take AT LEAST a month to build up the planet(s) to the point where they'd be worthwhile to raid, right?  You'd have to get past the "global newbie protection" stage, then reach a point where you're strong enough relative to your main empire for you to raid your "sockpuppet."  All the while, protecting your sockpuppet against OTHER empires who might raid while your main empire's fleet is on the way.

Seems like a lot of effort, when the inactives are free to raid without any continuous effort on your own part.

(But then, I'm in diplomacy mode, so what do I know about raiding?)
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Offline Ziggyny

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2010, 06:38:20 PM »
Apparently nothing. They're not building anyone up, they're shipping resources to an inactive planet by transporting to it. Then someone else comes by, attacks the planet 6 times, and scoops up 98% of what was deposited.

Why is this a problem? Well, the game has infrastructure in place such that a lower ranked person can't just ship resources to a higher ranked person. The game prevents you from doing it, but the technique detailed in the initial post gets around that hard coded rule and allows you to push 98% of the resources to someone else with only a small amount of extra effort.


I think it is important to post things like this to the boards since BFG already replied to the OPs bug report saying it wasn't an issue. The only way to get things changed if the support team is going to ignore the report is to stir up trouble on the boards and bring attention to the issue.
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Offline Bleys

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2010, 09:15:12 PM »
BFGs inability to deal with the wide-spread cheating going on in there game is quickly driving me away. Shame too. I doubt I will be the only one, and I know I am not the first. It drove me from OG for over a year in 07, and only the promise of tighter security in the new design drew me back.

I am with DEMON though, if you have to cheat, I pity your pathetic gaming ability, and I will still likely kick your ass playing straight as an arrow.
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Offline Andrade III

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2010, 06:47:45 AM »
Quote
The only way to get things changed if the support team is going to ignore the report is to stir up trouble on the boards and bring attention to the issue.

Exactly.

Now, I intended not to name names in such a public forum, because I really am trying to get BFG in to investigate and take action based on the facts that only they have.

But if nothing seems to be happening by next week the exposés will begin  :twisted:

Quote from: "Bleys"
I am with DEMON though, if you have to cheat, I pity your pathetic gaming ability, and I will still likely kick your ass playing straight as an arrow.

I think we're all with demon-big plans are in the works as we speak.
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Offline Oort

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2010, 07:26:26 AM »
I don't get the reaction he is getting for pointing this out. Some of you are missing the point entirely and acting like he is advocating that people use this method. It's not like its hard to detect - in fact I'm surprised that BFG doesn't have code in place that automatically notifies them if resources are transported to an inactive planet - there are only 2 possible reasons that could happen

1 - player error.
2 - Attempted push

If its player error you'll see that player make an attempt to recover his resources very quickly. If its a push you'll see a lower ranked player moving in to pick up the resources fairly quickly - most likely a buddy or alliance mate.

There are times when the push rule is a hindrance to honest play - such as 2 people working together to attack someone and the higher ranked harvests the debris and can't get an equal share to their lower ranked friend. Quite a few people confuse what qualifies you as higher when it comes to resource transfer - its not rank, but resources spent. I've made this mistake, harvesting the debris field and trying to dole out the shares only to find someone has more resources spent points even when I outrank them.

But to keep the playing field equal and to stop people from abusing the push I can see why there are no allowances, regardless of circumstances. So I hope BFG is looking into it. Been many times I've wanted to find work arounds to get resources to people ranked stronger than me because I truly owed them, but didnt' because of the push rule so its disheartening to hear that others are doing it with no reprisal.
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Offline davide

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Re: Advanced Pushing Technique
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2010, 12:23:43 AM »
There is a legitimate reason to dump resources onto an inactive, and that's if you are setting bait to draw in someone, and then going to ninja them using an oracle.

That said, the value of this tactic over the ability of it to be exploited as a cheat seems to suggest that it should be blocked.

But there will always be cheaters, I think it's important for BFG to take cheating seriously. They need to clearly articulate the rules, so that people don't break them out of not understanding. It's ok for them to give people a second chance, but habitual offenders banned.

I think publishing the cheating methods (when they are something BFG could block) actually encourages them to take it seriously and do something about it.
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