contact
June 06, 2020, 05:29:18 AM

Author Topic: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider  (Read 918 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vanessa

  • Member
  • Posts: 637
    • View Profile
Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« on: April 30, 2010, 05:12:33 PM »
Name of Ship/Defense:  Menoitios
God of violent anger, rash action, and human mortality.

Description:  A very fast, but weak, raiding ship.  Designed to attack inactive players, and/or to follow up when a Hermes probe reveals a very weakly guarded mining colony.

(edited/updated, thanks to LunarAvenger for his revisions...)

Construction Cost: 1500 Ore, 1500 Crystal, 5000 Hydrogen

Hull Integrity: 300
Weapon Power: 25
Shield Power: 5

Rapid-fire on: Helios x2; Charon x2; Hermes x2
Rapid-fire Against: Zeus x250; Hades x60; Poseidon x15; Apollo x7

Cargo Capacity: 1000
Fuel Consumption: 50
Base Speed: 25,000
Engine Type : Warp


Building and Research Requirements:
Warp Drive level 1
FTL Tech level 4
Energy Tech level 6
Shipyard level 3


Notes:  It is intended that this ship will allow Warp-capable players a faster turn-around time for raiding inactives (ie, attack-and-return within 30 minutes).




------------- original version -----------------
Construction Cost: 500 Ore , 1500 Crystal, 8000 Hydrogen.

Hull Integrity:  200
Weapon Power: 20
Shield Power: 10

Rapid-fire For + Values [Good Against]: none

Rapid-fire Against + Values [Bad Against]:  Zeus x250;  Poseidon x200; Hades x100

Cargo Capacity:  1000
Fuel Consumption[In Hydrogen]: 10
Base Speed:  200,000
Engine Type : Warp
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:19:06 PM by Vanessa »

Offline lee666

  • Member
  • Posts: 244
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 05:20:19 PM »
joke right? 200k speed + warp, 1k cargo...
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline furemer

  • Member
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 11:27:33 PM »
hmmm you know I find it interesting people like to shoot down ideas just becuase they don't like it
the history of warfare shows that there is never just one type of unit, never just one line of ships, planes etc....
true there are those that stand out and dominate becuase they turn out to be the most cost effective, or just have the right political backing at the time.....

however everyone has their own variants, many are less than successful still they are built and used, sometimes someone even finds a way to make the failure into an effective weapon...  

personally I'd like to see a hundred more ship choices, and dozens more defense options, it would make things far more interesting
lots more combinations to try
so what if 90% never use it, if one player does and enjoys it then it strengthens the community and increases the odds that player will stay
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Rob

  • Member
  • Posts: 391
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 02:02:16 PM »
Wow.... At Warp 9 that thing would have a speed of 740,000! That's 10 systems in 29 minutes, if I did the math right.

I really don't think this is a good idea.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that variation in ships is, in general, a good idea. But variation just for the sake of variation is not a good thing. If you create ships that have no specific purpose, or no niche, then you'll end up with a bunch of ships that aren't used. People will find the sweet spot of ships, and everyone will use that. All the design effort into the other hundreds of ships is wasted effort.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline sooth

  • Member
  • Posts: 171
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 03:53:16 PM »
Cut the base speed to maybe 50,000. Still kinda fast
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Vastet

  • Guest
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 04:13:17 PM »
Way too fast. It would be more than half the base speed of a probe by Warp 10. It would allow in system raids in < 5 minutes, and make clearing someone out after a nuking WAY too easy.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline LunarAvenger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1477
  • Your flesh shall be sutured into the orthodoxy!
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 04:36:39 PM »
Quote
Construction Cost: 500 Ore , 1500 Crystal, 8000 Hydrogen.

Hull Integrity: 200
Weapon Power: 20
Shield Power: 10

Rapid-fire For + Values [Good Against]: none

Rapid-fire Against + Values [Bad Against]: Zeus x250; Poseidon x200; Hades x100

Cargo Capacity: 1000
Fuel Consumption[In Hydrogen]: 10
Base Speed: 200,000
Engine Type : Warp

If you want faster times play in extreme. Imagine that thing in-system in extreme at warp 9...
200.000 speed... increased to 740.000 speed.

Speed 740.000
Distance 1045
time = {  ([35000/100] * sqrt[({10*distance}/speed)+10] } / 2
time = {350* sqrt(10450/740000) +10 }/2= {350*0,11883442944543311780128534630081 +10}/2 = {51.59}/2 = 25.79 seconds.

Or in Original that would be 51.59 seconds.


You have no idea how much power this ship would give me in extreme. Imagine a fleet that of thousands of these "needle" ships firing at your colony in the same system.

This is the Artemis Compared to your ship with Tech values of 10/10/10 and Jet 11 vs warp 9

Cargo Capacity 50 vs 1000   
Speed 26,250 vs    740,000
Fuel Consumption   20 vs 10   
Attack Strength 100 vs 40   
Shield Strength 20 vs 20    
Hull 800 vs 400

Cost difference? 3K/1K/0 vs 0.5K/1.5K/8K now if I can spend 10 million hydrogen on Haphaestus then I certainly can get myself a few thousand of these things.
ALSO this ship is the missile strikers wet dream. Nuke the tar out of a world, and launch these suckers.

My version of your ship, how much I changed in blue
Quote
Construction Cost: 1500 Ore +1000 , 1500 Crystal, 5000 Hydrogen -3000.

Hull Integrity: 300 +100
Weapon Power: 25 +5
Shield Power: 5 -5

Rapid-fire on: Helios x2; Charon x2; Hermes x2
Rapid-fire Against: Zeus x250; Hades x60; Poseidon x15; Apollo x7

Cargo Capacity: 1000
Fuel Consumption: 50 +40
Base Speed: 25,000 -175,000
Engine Type : Warp

This ship would have a base speed value of 92500 at warp 9. Certainly fast enough for you?


+1 To the idea of having hundreds of ships.

Look at my classes of "fast ships", they use warp. (for a reference the hades/athena use base speed 10,000)

Erinýe Class I raider (Megaera Class)
Cargo Capacity 400
Speed 11,000
Fuel Consumption 40
Attack Strength 350
Shield Strength 25
Hull 650

Erinýe Class II raider (Alecto Class)
Cargo Capacity 600
Speed 12,000
Fuel Consumption 60
Attack Strength 450
Shield Strength 35
Hull 750

Erinýe Class III raider (Tisiphone Class)
Cargo Capacity 1000
Speed 13,000
Fuel Consumption 100
Attack Strength 650
Shield Strength 55
Hull 900

P.S. If my calculation times are off can someone post the correction?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
I'm Ancient
Disciple of the ZPM, occe Leader of the Empire, and designer of various ships that were added.

Offline Kimbahlicious

  • Member
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 05:01:00 PM »
Quote from: "furemer"
hmmm you know I find it interesting people like to shoot down ideas just becuase they don't like it

...You prefer someone votes for an idea they don't like?  What kind of backwards logic is that?  Just say you hadn't had enough coffee yet when you wrote this and all will be forgiven.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
Retired, not retired, retired, not retired....
No Prey, No Pay
  - Don Maitz

Offline LunarAvenger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1477
  • Your flesh shall be sutured into the orthodoxy!
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 05:18:49 PM »
Quote from: "Kimbahlicious"
Quote from: "furemer"
hmmm you know I find it interesting people like to shoot down ideas just becuase they don't like it

...You prefer someone votes for an idea they don't like?  What kind of backwards logic is that?  Just say you hadn't had enough coffee yet when you wrote this and all will be forgiven.

Augh flame war provokers, go take one of those happy pills and let it slide... we are talking about ships here  :roll:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
I'm Ancient
Disciple of the ZPM, occe Leader of the Empire, and designer of various ships that were added.

Offline Vanessa

  • Member
  • Posts: 637
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 08:16:14 PM »
I like the changes, Lunar.  Thanks!

Quote from: "LunarAvenger"
Construction Cost: 1500 Ore, 1500 Crystal, 5000 Hydrogen

Hull Integrity: 300
Weapon Power: 25
Shield Power: 5

Rapid-fire on: Helios x2; Charon x2; Hermes x2
Rapid-fire Against: Zeus x250; Hades x60; Poseidon x15; Apollo x7

Cargo Capacity: 1000
Fuel Consumption: 50
Base Speed: 25,000
Engine Type : Warp

I'll probably edit the top post and replace the suggestion with yours (keeping the original as "strikeouts" at the bottom.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline LunarAvenger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1477
  • Your flesh shall be sutured into the orthodoxy!
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 08:34:04 PM »
Sweet, that works too... not telling you how to make a ship, just pointing out (in a helpful way *whacks the trolls*) what I think should be different.

I am going to revive my ship building ideas I think
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
I'm Ancient
Disciple of the ZPM, occe Leader of the Empire, and designer of various ships that were added.

Offline Kimbahlicious

  • Member
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 09:28:23 PM »
Quote from: "LunarAvenger"
Quote from: "Kimbahlicious"
Quote from: "furemer"
hmmm you know I find it interesting people like to shoot down ideas just becuase they don't like it

...You prefer someone votes for an idea they don't like?  What kind of backwards logic is that?  Just say you hadn't had enough coffee yet when you wrote this and all will be forgiven.

Augh flame war provokers, go take one of those happy pills and let it slide... we are talking about ships here  :roll:

If it was an actual suggestion, I would have.  But c'mon, a ship designed to attack inactives faster?  Why not just stick with an atlas and increase its drive?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
Retired, not retired, retired, not retired....
No Prey, No Pay
  - Don Maitz

Offline LunarAvenger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1477
  • Your flesh shall be sutured into the orthodoxy!
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 11:39:53 PM »
Quote from: "Kimbahlicious"
If it was an actual suggestion, I would have.  But c'mon, a ship designed to attack inactives faster?  Why not just stick with an atlas and increase its drive?

Um... as you noticed I wouldn't be using it on inactives. This ship with the high speed would be a menace to Active players if used properly. A thousand tiny needles ripping into a planet...
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
I'm Ancient
Disciple of the ZPM, occe Leader of the Empire, and designer of various ships that were added.

Offline furemer

  • Member
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 01:38:26 AM »
actaully I have an extreme metabolic condition which does cuase me to be chemically imbalanced regularly up to potentially fatal seizures  :o

so sometimes yes :lol:  what I am trying to say may be undicipherable

but No I am serious, people on here often shott down ideas just on the basis of the personal wouldn't use it, or don't understand it etc....

when you are talking ship design...

does the concept have historical or fictional/game precedents, i.e. has the concept been used before

does the ship fit an obvious need in general? does it fit a specific ninche?  Does it enable a new play option?  

Does the ship as presented fit the general concept presented.  (trying to make slow combat tub and giving it warp 9 doesn't fit)

How does the idea, impact general play balance?  Could a counter idea midigate the balance impact?
(Some ideas are fine but one sided, and both the idea and counter should be refined for potential implementation)

Does the math add up by the listed game equations, for example the propossed numbers were too fast and the commentors were able to by discussion arrive at an appropriate range.  

Another thing which should sometimes be considered and discussed for example I've heard about players asking for stealth technology, like a cloaking device? Well one way that could be represented is to of course increase the difficulty of detection by espionage, i.e. probes.  Another way is to hide the fleet info on a attack, or mission, ok so you are being attacked.  But you have no clue by what becuase the fleet is cloaked.  

Many concepts are difficult to introduce becuase of the lottery style of combat.  In short all attacks is random? And each ship has one shot? Rapid fire being how its represented that some ships actaully have multiple guns.  .... For me thats a overly simplified and unrealistic means of combat resolution.  What about area effect weapons? What about rapid firing weapons systems that should be able to lock onto a target multiple times?  
Ah but all thats for other discussions, ;)

time to take out the dogs maybe more later  :?:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline LunarAvenger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1477
  • Your flesh shall be sutured into the orthodoxy!
    • View Profile
Re: Menoitios, Lightning Fast Raider
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 01:57:28 AM »
Quote from: "furemer"
actaully I have an extreme metabolic condition which does cuase me to be chemically imbalanced regularly up to potentially fatal seizures  :o
Have a gf like that... she isnt fatal though... scares the crap out of me because all I could was helplessly hold her

when you are talking ship design...

does the concept have historical or fictional/game precedents, i.e. has the concept been used before

does the ship fit an obvious need in general? does it fit a specific ninche?  Does it enable a new play option?  

Does the ship as presented fit the general concept presented.  (trying to make slow combat tub and giving it warp 9 doesn't fit)

How does the idea, impact general play balance?  Could a counter idea midigate the balance impact?
(Some ideas are fine but one sided, and both the idea and counter should be refined for potential implementation)

Does the math add up by the listed game equations, for example the propossed numbers were too fast and the commentors were able to by discussion arrive at an appropriate range.  

Another thing which should sometimes be considered and discussed for example I've heard about players asking for stealth technology, like a cloaking device? Well one way that could be represented is to of course increase the difficulty of detection by espionage, i.e. probes.  Another way is to hide the fleet info on a attack, or mission, ok so you are being attacked.  But you have no clue by what becuase the fleet is cloaked.  

This will NEVER happen. Cloaking is a subject that has been beaten to death, revived, and killed again. It is too much of an advantage. Would be fun, until you ran into it. Then again you would simply fleetsave. It doesnt add anything.

Many concepts are difficult to introduce becuase of the lottery style of combat.  In short all attacks is random? And each ship has one shot? Rapid fire being how its represented that some ships actaully have multiple guns.  .... For me thats a overly simplified and unrealistic means of combat resolution.  What about area effect weapons? What about rapid firing weapons systems that should be able to lock onto a target multiple times?  
Ah but all thats for other discussions, ;)
Rapid fire of the Zeus... does it have one huge cannon that totally obliterates everything in a line? or does it have several hundred turrets that can fire? either way it kills several ships each round.
Area effect? Sure that works with the rapid fire system. The area effect weapon hit everything in that area. Same effect as rapid fire from one gun.

time to take out the dogs maybe more later  :?:

IN fact... rapid fire of a Zeus makes more sense as a huge beam of power that is firing at the enemy fleet, it simply goes through everything except another massive Zeus or a Heph. It sweeps along the planet surface wiping out every defense system in a black trail of total devastation except for the massive shield systems found on decoys and plasmas which cause the emitters of the beam to phase out of sync for a round.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
I'm Ancient
Disciple of the ZPM, occe Leader of the Empire, and designer of various ships that were added.